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Renée’s Stage 2 Breast Cancer Story

Renée’s Stage 2 Breast Cancer Story

Renee F. feature profile

Renée first met cancer at 18 when she was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia.

In 2019, she was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer, which metastasized to her lymph nodes.

In this story, she shares how she developed a second cancer, the challenges she underwent with her treatment plan and how she continues to “thrive” as a survivor.


This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.


  • Name: Renée F.
  • Diagnosis:
    • Breast Cancer
  • Staging: 2
  • Initial Symptoms:
    • Breast shaped differently
    • Dimple in breast
    • Flat nipple
  • Treatment:
  • Maintenance Treatment:

Whatever stage you are in and whatever year in your journey you are in, may I remind you: you’re still here. You are still thriving. Even if it was a hard day yesterday, you’re here and that is to be celebrated and enjoyed.



It really took hearing my daughter say, ‘My mommy is a cancer survivor,’ to understand that when we say it, it’s power. We’re getting our power back by saying, ‘I have cancer.’

Life after leukemia

I’m a single mom. I’ve been on my own since she was born and it’s been really tough. But at the same time, I have her looking up at me. It’s like, “How do I explain to my five-year-old (at the time) that I have cancer? How do I reassure her and myself that things are going to be okay?”

I remember being afraid to say the word cancer because it’ll make it real. Then I realized I need to call it by its name because it needs to know my name. If I give it space, then I have some ownership over that, have some control, and it eliminates the scary a little bit.

It really took hearing my daughter say, “My mommy is a cancer survivor,” to understand that when we say it, it’s power. We’re getting our power back by saying, “I have cancer,” and so is saying, “I’m sick.”

Renee F. and daughter Ava
Renee F. and daughter Ava

To miraculously get pregnant just blasted all of my doctors’ minds because they’ve always said this is medically impossible. It’s clinically impossible. Total body radiation for two months. There was no fertility at all.

It’s even more incredible because I had my bone marrow transplant [on] September 17, 2002. Eleven years later, I miraculously got pregnant. My due date for my daughter was September 17, 2013. She arrived early [though].

When did you start to notice something?

When I got diagnosed with breast cancer, it was like a sucker punch, but at the same time, I kind of knew what to do this time.

For the last 20 years, we’ve been monitoring my blood work, focusing on my immune system, my anemia, and kind of touch and go on other things. There’s been lumps and bumps throughout the years, but everything has been biopsied and perfectly fine.

I was doing a regular monthly check and didn’t feel anything different or strange. I was about to get in the shower but I dropped something. When I went to pick it up, I saw my reflection in the mirror and noticed that one of my boobs was shaped [differently] when I leaned over. I thought, That’s strange.

I grabbed another mirror and did a couple of little movements then realized if I put my arm up, this whole breast was a totally different shape. I thought, That’s different, so I noted it.

The following day, [as] I’m getting dressed, I notice there’s a weird dimple in my boob that wasn’t there before. Maybe I gained weight. I weighed myself. A couple of days go by and now [I] notice my nipple is flat but I don’t feel anything. It just looks different on the outside.

I had a routine follow-up appointment with my doctor, the one who told me I was pregnant, and [as] we’re finishing things up, she tells me, “Is there anything else before we leave today?” I walk out and said, “Oh, I forgot to tell you! My boob looks kind of weird.” She goes, “What?” She took a look at it and immediately sent me over to get a mammogram.

Renee F. breast self-exam

When we got to the appointment and my doctor walked in, she didn’t have to say anything. She just started crying.

Renee F. breast scan results on monitor

In the middle of getting the mammogram, the nurse left the room, came back, and said, “All right, you need to get dressed. We need to go to a different room because we need to do a biopsy.” I was like, “What? Right now?” She’s like, “Yeah, right now.”

She took me to another room, set me up for a biopsy, did this whole biopsy, called the doctor, and then told me, “I’m going to leave you here because I need to go take your results to the lab. Your doctor wants it stat.”

I’m laying with my arm up on this table for what feels like forever. She comes back, does two more biopsies, marks me up, and then says, “You have an appointment tomorrow with your doctor. You should bring somebody with you.”

My mom came with me. When we got to the appointment and my doctor walked in, she didn’t have to say anything. She just started crying. I was crying and said, “What is it?” She goes, “It’s metastatic breast cancer. It’s stage 2.” I said, “How come I didn’t feel anything?” And she says, “It’s behind the breast tissue. It’s along your rib cage and it goes all the way to the back.”

It was a whirlwind [of] scheduling and trying to figure out what we do now.

Cancer genetic testing as a bone marrow transplant recipient

I had to contact all of my bone marrow transplant doctors and let them know what was going on because it meant that we had to do completely different genetic testing. I’ve had a bone marrow transplant so it was a whole different ball game for me.

When you have a bone marrow transplant, it wipes out your immune system [and] also your blood system. When you have an organ transplant, you have a donor organ being transplanted into your body. Bone marrow is an organ so even though I’m me on the outside, technically, I am my sister.

Because of genetic testing, we’re able to determine whether or not this is a line that carries in our family history and if we need to be concerned for other members [of] the family. When you have somebody else’s bone marrow, I’m technically her makeup even though I have my own genetic makeup.

It sent the scientists on a whirlwind trying to figure out what tests to do on somebody like me where if we do a blood test, it’ll show my sister and what her predisposition conditions could possibly be, not mine.

Luckily, we were able to determine that this breast cancer was not genetically inherited. It was in direct relation to, most likely, the chemical burns, doxorubicin, and total body radiation, which is weirdly comforting in the sense that at least I know it’s not genetic.

It’s a little frustrating to know that this is from what I had to have. If I would have known then what I know now, would I change anything? No, not at all. If I would have known then that I would end up at 35 years old with stage 2 breast cancer, I still would do everything the same.

Renee F. in the hospital
Renee F. treatment

Treatment

What was the treatment plan?

The plan was to go with chemotherapy and radiation to wipe out the immune system and bone marrow to do a full bone marrow transplant and cross our fingers. The long-term routine was to continually check the blood levels and make sure that everybody is where they’re supposed to be.

Then just managing the chronic issues from the treatments — fibromyalgia, migraines, and things like that — and regular cancer awareness routines, self-checks, and making sure to get my first mammogram at 40, and just stick to that.

When I got diagnosed with breast cancer, it changed everything because I had so much chemotherapy given to me in 2002. There’s only so much your body can have maximum. I’m on eight doses out of ten.

What was really frustrating was that once we found out that it was metastatic breast cancer, I already had a lot of the typical chemotherapy that’s used to treat this type of cancer.

It would be in my best interest to do a different chemotherapy routine, hope that that works, and shelf the remaining doses of doxorubicin, just in case, and just try our luck.

If I would have known then that I would end up at 35 years old with stage 2 breast cancer, I still would do everything the same.

How did you process this diagnosis compared to your first?

I think I processed this one better because I was awake. When I was going through leukemia, I was so sick, medicated, and comatose so I really don’t remember a lot.

I’m thankful because we kept daily logs of what was going on and I can look back. Thank goodness I don’t remember because I don’t want to.

Walking into treatment brought back flashbacks that I was not expecting to have and moments that I was not prepared to cope with. I think it made it hard for my family to embrace the situation because I did keep a lot of things internally.

You have these emotional breaks where you’re just a wreck and people don’t know how to cope with that. They don’t know how to comfort somebody. “Oh, you’re going to get better. You’re going to be fine.” Not really helping.

Tell me I can be angry. Tell me it’s okay to be upset. Then tell me I’m strong. I got through yesterday. Remind me of another time when it was really tough and I got through that. Because no matter how hard this might be, even if I’m on the floor in the fetal position, feeling desperate and clinging to life, I’m still clinging to life and that is to be celebrated, that is to be focused on.

Renee F. stronger than you think

Tell me I can be angry. Tell me it’s okay to be upset. Then tell me I’m strong… No matter how hard this might be, even if I’m on the floor in the fetal position, feeling desperate and clinging to life, I’m still clinging to life and that is to be celebrated.

Renee F. and daughter Ava
Breaking the news to my daughter

Having my five-year-old and facing the biggest fear that I had being a parent — what do I do if this comes back? — I had to embrace it as best as I could and explain it to my kid without terrifying her.

I was teaching preschool and told her, “When you make artwork and you add glue, paint, and glitter to things, sometimes it gets really messy. You can’t go over and erase glue and glitter. Sometimes, you have to just start over. If you look at people, we’re made of glue and glitter. Sometimes things get a little messy and that’s why there [are] doctors. They come in, erase the board, and clean it up so that you have a new space to create something new. And that’s basically what mom’s going through.”

I had a unilateral mastectomy so it means that I had just one breast removed, mostly because we needed to hurry up and get started on treatment.

Side effects from treatment

Hugging my daughter was different. It changed. Those were things that I wasn’t really expecting to deal with.

Hair loss? I knew that was coming so I wasn’t going to sit around and wait for my hair to fall out. I started cutting it and then we shaved my head.

My daughter and I got henna tattoos. I got one on my head and continued to get henna tattoos because, from my previous experience, wigs were not comfortable for me. I didn’t like the feeling and it was hard to wear my masks.

Renee F. head henna tattoo
Renee F. scrapbook
What did you learn from going through leukemia that helped you?

As far as being prepared and using some of what I have learned from leukemia to help me with breast cancer, it was the hair, the food train, and financial resources. But the emotional stuff, I was not prepared for.

It took me a long time to realize that a lot of the things that I was doing in [the] clinic were from [my experience with] leukemia, like instantly asking for a warm blanket. That solidifies that I’m really here. This is really happening. I know my way around. This warm blanket brings me some comfort because I know what to ask for. In the cafeteria, I also know to ask for vanilla ice cream instead of applesauce.

Sometimes you need to have a moment with nature to remember [that] you’re just this small little stardust in this great, huge world. There’s surviving and thriving all around you.

What helped you process your breast cancer diagnosis?

Mindfulness practice is huge. I didn’t realize how. I’m an Aquarius so I love water and anything related to water, but I didn’t realize how much that impacts your emotional wellness and stabilizes some of these things.

When I was going through leukemia, I would listen to [the] sounds of the ocean. I’m locked in this room. I can’t leave. I’m bedridden.

My mom would fill the basin with ice-cold water, rocks, and shells that I had from my collection, and she’d swoosh it back and forth for me. I just closed my eyes, put my hands in the basin, feel the waves, trance out, and go where it doesn’t matter.

It’s still something I practice. It’s still something that I hold on to. I have a fountain in my yard. I love the rain because it’s just so beautiful.

Renee F. near the beach
Renee F. holding surfboard

I went surfing for the first time and in an instant of wiping out and bleeding in the ocean, I realized my cancer doesn’t matter. Cancer doesn’t matter [at] this moment. If a shark really wanted to eat me, he’d eat me. He doesn’t care if I have cancer.

Sometimes you need to have a moment with nature to remember [that] you’re just this small little stardust in this great, huge world. There’s surviving and thriving all around you.

The moment that I realized that there is peace [in] being in nature was the moment that I realized that I see hearts in clouds. I see hearts in leaves. I see hearts in rocks. I see hearts constantly in nature. I feel like it’s some type of validation or affirmation. You’re part of this, too. Keep growing. Keep being in this moment.

When you’re submersed in nature and captivated [by] the mystical beauty of it, you start to forget your problems and then you start to breathe. It feels so invigorating, [like] that feeling after a good workout.

What happened after you got a unilateral mastectomy?

Due to the timing, with my history and everything, we had to do surgery right away to eliminate the problem as much as we could physically and then attack it with medicine. We rushed in and did a unilateral mastectomy and removed the entire left breast and my lymph nodes on the left arm.

As soon as I recovered from that, I started chemotherapy again. I was on Taxotere and Cytoxan. I had to do home injections as well so it was paired with chemotherapy. That was for about six months.

I had six rounds total of chemo then I had targeted radiation to the chest and parts of my arm. I had about 25 sessions of radiation and then started the process of healing.

In 2020, we did a scan to check everything. There [were] markers in the right breast, but the findings weren’t as aggressive as what we discovered in the left breast. When we did that scan, it revealed that I actually now would also need my thyroid removed. There [were] tumors there as well. It was just safer to remove the entire thyroid and not leave parts of it.

I had chemo and radiation again, a ton of surgery, only to find out that we were going to go take something else. And that was in the middle of the pandemic, too, so it was terrifying.

They removed the thyroid. I’ve had no problem since then and I’ve been on this long-term hormone, anti-cancer regimen for the last couple of years and I’m on it for a few more years. I think I get off in 2024.

Renee F. in hospital bed
Renee F. in the hospital

[In] April [2022], I was finally stable enough, health-wise, to have a finalized mastectomy and DIEP flap reconstructive surgery. Because of all my radiation and how much they had to remove from the chest wall, implants were not an option for me.

DIEP flap surgery is grafting different parts of either your back or your abdomen to make boobies. They were able to graft my abdomen, move it all up, and do a full reconstructive surgery.

The right side gave me a ton of problems and I’ve had a bunch of complications since then — necrosis and staph infections. I’m still bandaged [after eight months], but I’m getting there. I’m almost done healing and I have a normal-ish-looking body again. I don’t have to wear a prosthetic breast anymore, which was a whole lane to walk down, too.

At this point, things are stagnant and that’s a good thing. My health is stable. The treatments are working. My blood looks great. Still anemic like usual, but everybody’s acting right.

I don’t consider myself cancer-free. I consider myself a survivor but more than anything, I consider myself a thriver.

Renee F. cancer-free written on sand

How do you feel knowing that everything is good and stable?

To be honest, mixed feelings because it’s this basket of hope, like, “Yehey! I get to get on with my life again, move on, figure out what life is like with my stomach is my boobs now, and rebuild [and] re-plan my goals.”

But on the other side, it’s, “All right. Is this the calm before the storm? What’s next? If we’ve removed parts that I can function life without, what do you come for next?”

I don’t consider myself cancer-free. I consider myself a survivor but more than anything, I consider myself a thriver and that’s where I associate myself with my health and [the] long term.

Renee F. and daughter Ava
Renee F. mini boxing gloves

Words of advice

Don’t stop dreaming. I know it sounds so cliché. Make that vision board. If you focus on living in all ways, then you remove the stress, fear, and worry.

I have plenty of days where [I’m] down and mopey and all I can do is sit on the couch. But I know that there will be a day [when] I have energy and I’m out there, living, touching, tasting different things, and feeling the world. It’s okay to have both days.

Just because you’ve been diagnosed with cancer doesn’t mean it’s over. It’s not over yet. You’re not dead yet. When it gets too much and nature doesn’t work or listening to music doesn’t work or talking to somebody doesn’t work, my best advice is [to] go clean something.

Organize something. Accomplish a small, achievable task. You can polish it up. You can reorganize it. You will take pride in that. Then all of a sudden, dopamine and serotonin and all these things start running through you because you achieved.

Whatever stage you are in and whatever year in your journey you are in, may I remind you: you’re still here. You are still thriving. Even if it was a hard day yesterday, you’re here and that is to be celebrated and enjoyed.

I have never been good with body image and loving myself the way that I look and who I am in my skin until I got breast cancer. Then I started really, really loving the fact that I heal really [well] from things that try to destroy me.

When I get caught up and it really takes a toll on my emotions or my finances, I have to remember how much I heal. I have to touch my scars and remind myself: we rebuilt. Sometimes you need to touch your scars to remind yourself that you’re still here and you’re a freaking badass.

If you focus on living in all ways, then you remove the stress, fear, and worry.


Renée was 18 when she started noticing bruises but she was on the cheerleading and dance teams so she just associated the bruising with those. After she had her wisdom teeth removed, her health rapidly declined, prompting her mom to bring her to the hospital. She shares her story of how her cancer journey began.

Read Renée’s acute myeloid leukemia story here »


Renee F. feature profile
Thank you for sharing your story, Renée!

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Categories
Acute Myeloid Leukemia (AML) Bone marrow transplant Cancers Chemotherapy Leukemia Patient Stories Radiation Therapy

Renée’s Acute Myeloid Leukemia Story

Renée’s Acute Myeloid Leukemia Story

Renee F. cheerleader

Renée was 18 when she started noticing bruises all over her body. At first, she thought the bruising was normal because she was a cheerleader and dancer.

After she had her wisdom teeth removed, her health rapidly declined, prompting her mom to bring her to the hospital.

She shares her story of finding out she had an aggressive type of cancer, being told she won’t be able to have kids, and the miraculous surprise of finding out she was pregnant.


This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.


  • Name: Renée F.
  • Diagnosis:
    • Acute myeloid leukemia (AML)
  • Initial Symptoms:
    • Bruising
  • Treatment:
    • Chemotherapy
    • Radiation
    • Allogeneic bone marrow transplant

All I was holding on to was trying to keep it together because these little, itty bitty pediatric kids are looking up to me.



‘We don’t know what’s going on just yet, but because you’re 18, we need to ask you if you have a DNR.’ I panicked… and immediately signed my rights to my parents. Then the rest was a big blur.

Introduction

I’m from California. I love the ocean. I love hiking. I’m very artistic and creative, and I like to find careers that allow me to utilize that creativity. I was a preschool teacher for many, many years.

I’m a single mom. I’m kind of obsessed with my kid. My world revolves around her. [It’s] really special that I get to relive all my favorite things from my childhood with my daughter.

She is incredible and very smart. She’s got an old heart, an old soul, and she’s determined to be a doctor or a surgeon so we’re working on that. And we have two cats.

Renee F. and daughter Ava

I can’t control how this disease ended up in me, but I can control what I’m going to do now.

Renee F. cheerleader profile

Pre-diagnosis

What were your first symptoms?

I was a senior in high school. I was a cheerleader and a dancer so I was covered in bruises all the time and always achy. That was normal for cheerleading.

I got my wisdom teeth pulled. Surgery [went] perfectly fine but after, things went downhill really, really fast.

My mom, who insisted that there was something wrong, rushed me to the hospital. They did some blood work and told us, “Don’t go very far. You’re not being admitted yet, but we’re going to get the results fairly soon so just stay close by.” 

[After] maybe 20 minutes, the hospital staff was running down the hallway with the wheelchair, yelling my name. They found me and my mom and said, “You need to come with us. We need to take you back to do more testing, but we need to get you back to the hospital.”

They brought me in and said, “We don’t know what’s going on just yet, but because you’re 18, we need to ask you if you have a DNR.” I said, “I don’t have my driver’s license yet.” She said, “That’s not what that means,” and explained to me what a DNR was.

Because I was 18 and really sick, I had two options: (1) sign off my rights to my parents, be completely admitted to the hospital with unknown circumstances, and let my family make decisions and choices on my behalf because I was going downhill very quickly; or (2) make my own decisions and sign a DNR.

I panicked, didn’t really know how to respond to that, and immediately signed my rights to my parents. Then the rest was a big blur.

They told me that I had a less than 25% chance of making it through the night, let alone the week… I hadn’t even gotten my driver’s license or my high school diploma yet and everything was just ripped away.

Renee F. tie-dye shirt
Renee F. with PICC line
Everything quickly went downhill

I was diagnosed [on] May 27, 2002. I had my wisdom teeth pulled prior to my diagnosis. It went downhill really quickly.

I’m trying to think back: when did I first really notice symptoms? When I was 16, I broke my fibula. I had a spiral fracture. Could it have been from then? I don’t know.

I don’t know how I ended up with this. I went to a very small Catholic school in Fremont. [Out of] 32 kids in my elementary school class, four classmates including myself were diagnosed with a form of cancer — two with breast cancer, two with leukemia, and two required bone marrow transplants. I was number 2. All before we were 35.

It makes your head spin and at the same time, you get nowhere. I can’t control how this disease ended up in me, but I can control what I’m going to do now.

In my mind, there was no other option. It was going to work, I’ll be damned.

Diagnosis

From that moment on, I spent about seven months in the hospital. I was in [the] ICU, hanging to life. All my friends from high school were called. All the teachers. Everybody just took off and flooded the hospital.

At the time of my diagnosis, they told me that I had a less than 25% chance of making it through the night, let alone the week. I was going to need two platelet transfusions and two blood transfusions right then and there just to get me stabilized.

If I made it through the week, there was a 50% chance the treatments would work [and] if they did, there would be a 50% chance of developing [a] secondary cancer. The treatments would cause me to be infertile because there is not enough time or science to consider any fertility-saving options.

I hadn’t even gotten my driver’s license or my high school diploma yet and everything was just ripped away.

I’m a very religious person so it was a very religiously-powered, emotional roller coaster. I clung to my faith, used music as therapy, and practiced mindset mindfulness.

Renee F. in hospital bed
Renee F. with PICC line outdoors
How did you process the diagnosis as an 18-year-old?

Lucky for me, I’m very stubborn. Being the third out of four girls, you got that middle child syndrome so you want to be heard, you want to be seen.

At that time, I was at a really low point in my life. My parents had gone through a really bad divorce and it was just really hitting me hard. When you’re a teenager, struggling with your emotional wellness and where you fit in this big, crazy world, that’s a lot to carry on your shoulders. Then add to it something that you have no control over, that’s fully taking over your life, and you just scream for control.

In my mind, there was no other option. It was going to work, I’ll be damned. It’s going to work. That was just the mindset.

I remember telling people, “I can’t have you crying in front of me right now because I’m going to lose it. If you cry, that’s fine. Just do it outside. I need to stay stable as best as I can.”

I’m a very religious person so it was a very religiously-powered, emotional roller coaster. I clung to my faith, used music as therapy, and practiced mindset mindfulness, things I didn’t even know I was doing then that are so fundamental now.

The hardest part was that because I was 18, I was the oldest kid in pediatric oncology. When other kids came by my room, they saw my cheerleading graduation pictures [and] the artwork that my friends left, and they came to me for advice.

I remember hearing one of them say as she was leaving my room, “Daddy, I didn’t know cheerleaders could get leukemia. I thought just kids got it.” Hearing that and not knowing where the hell I’m going to end up was just gut-wrenching. I have no other option. I’m not done yet.

My oncologist, who’s still friends with me today, [would] come over every morning. “Are you still fighting with me? I’m fighting for you. Are you still fighting with me?” And I would tell him, “Yeah, absolutely.”

Every time there was news that this treatment didn’t work or that we had to try this other chemo because it was stronger, my answer was always, “Whatever you have to do.”

When I think back to when I was going through this, I wish I heard more stories to hold on to because all I was holding on to was trying to keep it together because these little, itty bitty pediatric kids are looking up to me.

Renee F. with pedia cancer patient

My oncologist [would] come over every morning. “Are you still fighting with me? I’m fighting for you.

Renee F. at home
When did you get your diagnosis?

It was the same day that I went to the hospital for that blood test. This sweet old man came over and was talking to me and my mom. He says, “She has acute myelogenous leukemia.”

My mom said, “No, she doesn’t. You have the wrong test results. Her sister just got over mono. She has mono.” He said, “No, it’s not mono. It’s really serious. And if we don’t treat it right now, she’s not going to make it.” I asked him, “I’m not going to make it to what?” And he goes, “To the end of the week.”

I can honestly say it took years for this to set in, that this is what’s going on. The only way I could process it to make sense was that it was like a really, really bad sinus infection and that’s it.

Anybody that I had ever known who had cancer died. Kids don’t die from this. You’re not supposed to. I’m supposed to go do things. I was really involved in youth group and cheerleading. I had plans after high school to volunteer. I was going to work at the camp and go build more houses in Mexico.

I remember asking my doctor, “Okay, so in a couple of months, when this is done, I can go to Mexico, right?” And he goes, “Sure.” I think he knew right then and there how to counter the fact that I had problems comprehending what was going on.

‘If we don’t treat it right now, she’s not going to make it.’ I asked him, ‘I’m not going to make it to what?’ He goes, ‘To the end of the week.’

Treatment

I remember that first blood transfusion, that first bone marrow biopsy, and [the] spinal tap. I remember being in bed, machines going berserk, and telling my mom I couldn’t breathe. Then waking up months later, seeing my reflection in the hospital window of this bald person.

[I] had a patch over my eye because I had an infection. I had an infection from my port. I had an infection from my PICC line. Tubes everywhere. I was completely bedridden.

It was really late at night. I woke up and kept leaning over. My mom says, “What are you doing?” I said, “Who is that person staring at me?” And she goes, “Where?” And I said, “Right there. There’s this weird person staring at me.” And she goes, “Honey, that’s you.” She hit my morphine pump and I fell asleep.

I woke up and my friends and my sisters had made [a] list of all the famous bald people in the world and they put my name at the top of the list. Then they all started dyeing their hair purple.

It just swept over me. I was engulfed in this environment.

Because it was 2002, it was very hush-hush, especially after the recovery. There was nobody to talk to.

The therapist would come by and would be like, “You look really upset today. Is there something bothering you?” And I’m like, “Hmm. Hmm. It’s raining.” I would be so sarcastic. I went to sarcasm to cope because it was so extreme.

Renee F. in hospital bed
Renee F. in the hospital
Renee F. with PICC line scar
What was your treatment plan?

They started me on chemotherapy immediately. I had a PICC line put into my chest and was started on a seven-day treatment.

By day six, the chemotherapy had burnt a hole through the PICC line and caused this massive staph infection. My whole boob swelled and it was just awful. They had to rush me into surgery, remove the PICC line, put it in my arm, and continued with the chemotherapy.

After the chemo was finished, we found out that the chemo did nothing but piss off the cancer. The infection spread. Now I had an infection [in] my eye and things were just going downhill.

They put a PICC line in my neck. By that time, I was in intensive care. They started me on stronger chemotherapy. I believe it was doxorubicin because that’s what basically wiped it out.

I was completely comatose and had about four or five IV poles.

They had to move it. They put it [in the chest area] and it stayed stable for a year. But I had all these other infections now that picked up staph and it was just a mess. By [that] time, they had finally figured out the right chemotherapy to combat the leukemia.

Acute myeloid leukemia is a really fast-growing, aggressive cancer. They blasted me with doxorubicin, sent me over to Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital in Palo Alto, and blasted me with even more chemotherapy. I think the last round was a week’s worth of chemotherapy in 24 hours. It was insane.

I had mucositis. I threw up my esophageal lining. It was a mess.

Renee F. IV stand

‘You can’t start my radiation until you crank up Smack My Bitch Up by Prodigy. I need this to get through this,’ and they did. They totally obliged. You got to do what you got to do.

Renee F. radiation
Radiation

They had me do total body radiation. They had to tape me in this photo booth-looking thing because I had to stand up but I was really weak.

They would zap me then I’d come back later and they would do the back. I had to do it three times a day — front, back, front — and then the next day would be back, front, back. It was like that for a week. I had to do a separate lower-dose radiation treatment just on the lungs.

Bone marrow transplant

After, it was basically wiping out my immune system. I was completely immunocompromised. I was in double-door isolation for months. I couldn’t have visitors. I couldn’t see my friends.

All of my friends are off in college, living their dream, and I’m in prison, in the hospital. I graduated high school in [the] intensive care unit on speakerphone. My sisters accepted my diploma for me.

Most of the time in the hospital, I was clinging to life, bedridden, and in critical care. I was diagnosed in May. By September of that year, I had finally been prepared with chemotherapy and total body radiation to have a bone marrow transplant from my sister.

I have three sisters and lucky for me, two of them matched me perfectly, which is incredible because I’m mixed race. I’m Mexican and Italian so if they didn’t match, it would have been a nightmare.

Renee F. scrapbook
Renee F. in the hospital

My bone marrow transplant was the easiest thing out of everything. My doctor carried it in the bag and gave it to me. It was still warm and it was this mushy, orange-ish-looking, goopy, slimy thing in a bag. They hooked it up to my IV.

My sister was in recovery for a couple of hours. I ate cheese puffs and watched Monsters, Inc. for the millionth time. [I had] a lot of Benadryl and morphine.

The day after the infusion, they did [a] bone marrow biopsy to see how much of my sister’s had come in. From day one, it was good to go and immediately multiplied. From that point on, it was just monitoring to make sure that I developed a little bit of graft versus host but not enough to cross the threshold of safety.

I learned how to flush my own lines, mostly because I begged them to not make me come in every single day, twice a day, to flush my lines.

I was allowed to leave but because I was still so fragile, I had to be within one mile of the hospital for any situation. I stayed at the Ronald McDonald House in Palo Alto.

I had IV pumps that I had to continue doing. I learned how to flush my own lines, mostly because I begged them to not make me come in every single day, twice a day, to flush my lines. I told them, “I’m 18. Can you just teach me? I’m off [the] hospital campus. You can teach me.” They taught me how to do it.

I stayed at the Ronald McDonald House for about three months, came home for my 19th birthday, and started to rebuild my life from there.

I was immunocompromised and neutropenic for about a year so I was in complete isolation.

Renee F. flushing line

I have a sensitive immune system. It was 2002 so not a lot of people really understood that. I lost a lot of jobs because my health was so fragile and it made me look like I wasn’t a consistent employee.

Renee F. dining out

Remission

When they tested my bone marrow [on] day two or three, it had shown 85% [of] my sister and no percentage of me so as far as acute myeloid leukemia is concerned, I was in remission.

The chances of developing AML a second time were there but not any more of a concern than developing [a] secondary cancer.

They told me from the very beginning that the treatment that I [had] to have does cause other cancers and that because of my ethnicity, I’m already on the cusp of some other health issues, like heart disease and diabetes.

The protocol was to continue monitoring me as if I still actively had cancer. They outlined a five-year regimen. I had to get all of my vaccinations again [within] a certain time frame.

I had a lot of radiation done to my body. I had serious wounds and scar tissue. Radiation, scar tissue, and cancer just love to group up so there was concern of tumors, but [they didn’t] want to do mammograms [at] 22 so it was just ultrasounds and regular checks.

We’ve been monitoring my blood work every 3 to 6 months for the last 20 years. I have chronic anemia and my immune system is not my age. I’m 38. My immune system is only 20 years old so that meant going back to work was really difficult because anywhere I worked, I instantly got sick. 

I [was] already [burdened by] chronic issues from leukemia, but now I have a sensitive immune system. It was 2002 so not a lot of people really understood that. I lost a lot of jobs because my health was so fragile and it made me look like I wasn’t a consistent employee.

The ripple effects are still felt emotionally, physically, and financially. Honestly, I didn’t start to cope and deal with my leukemia until I got breast cancer. I packed it away. I didn’t know where to go to cope with it.

Renee F. with friends

If anybody asked me about the scars, I would make up stories… I didn’t want to be deemed the ‘cancer girl.’ Nobody falls in love with [a] girl with cancer is how I always saw it in my head.

Renee F. with family

Fertility

The effect of cancer treatment on fertility

In the back of my mind was this huge, unspoken conversation about fertility. I want to be a mom. I obsessively asked, “Do you know what my chances are after I recover from this stuff? If I’ll be able to get pregnant?”

I asked everybody to the point where they were like, “Renée, you need to just let this go.” It was like that for 11 years. I researched what tests we could do. I did everything possible. For 11 years, the answers were always, “There’s nothing. It’s not happening.”

From the time I was diagnosed, they told me that the treatment will cause infertility. I remember asking them right away, “How do we save my fertility?” They told me flat out, “We don’t have enough time to do what we need to do to save your fertility options.” And in 2002, they really didn’t have the science backing it too much either.

They had to prepare me for the worst because they really didn’t know either and I respect that. It was hard to process. Being told at 18 that you’re not going to be able to have kids then finally being able to recover and be free, you go a little crazy. You’re like, “Screw the world! I’m going to love everybody then and mask my pain with that.” 

I went from being this pure, Catholic-raised, Christian girl where I’m told to respect my body, that my body is a temple, and nobody is to touch it or violate it to wide open, everybody touching me, everybody feeling things, everybody looking, taking pictures, cutting me open, putting in this, putting in that, and it was like, “What happened to this temple that I was?” It was really hard to rebound from that and to have all these scars associated with it, too.

Renee F. scrapbook
Renee F. with family

[I was] obsessively asking and trying to find out, “If I eat more berries, will that increase my fertility? If I do this pose, will that help?” Trying whatever I could.

Then I got into a relationship where we were both really equal in if we have kids, that’s great [and] if we don’t, it’s no big deal. We were together for a long time.

After going through [treatment], my body went into medical menopause. I was taking hormones so I could get my period. It had been 10 years since my transplant. The doctors wanted to do a full panel test on me so they could scan everything and see what was going on. They wanted me off all of my hormone control medications.

I go to my doctor… She’s doing the ultrasound… She had me sit up to see and she goes, “Renée, you’re pregnant.”

Getting pregnant against all odds

I was off my medications for one year and got pregnant. Didn’t know. Started feeling some symptoms.

I go to my doctor, [who] has been my doctor for 15 years. She knows me very well. She’s doing the ultrasound and she’s already having the conversation with me. “Okay, Renée, if it’s a tumor, it’s going to probably look kind of clustered and it’s going to look like… Oh.” And I said, “Kind of like O? Like it’s going to be like an O shape?” And she goes, “No, look!”

She turns the monitor and grabbed my leg and said, “Did you see that?” I said, “Yeah, what is it?” And she goes, “It’s a baby!” And I said, “Whose?” And she goes, “Yours!” And I said, “How?” She’s like, “Well, you know how, but you’re pregnant!” And I was like, “No, I’m not. I can’t be.”

She had me sit up to see and she goes, “Renée, you’re pregnant.” I’m like, “No… You’re sure?” She’s looking at it and goes, “Oh my goodness.” I said, “What?” She goes, “You’re 14 weeks! You’re having a baby in six months!” “What?! What?!”

It was the most confusing day of my life. I had to call all of my doctors. I called Lucile Packard. All of them were like, “Wait. What?” As soon as it settled in, they all said, “We can’t wait to see our baby.” Everybody said Ava was theirs.

That became this quest of, “What am I getting myself into? What is my health? How does my health impact this baby? Is she going to have any side effects because of what I’ve been through?” It was really interesting to be able to go down that door and get in that space of all these different conversations.

Renee F. pregnant
Renee F. and daughter Ava

It had been so much time since my treatments that if anything, she’ll be really small, probably premature, and [have a] low birth weight. But other than that, everything else looked perfectly fine.

The beautiful part was that during my pregnancy, all of my chronic symptoms — fibromyalgia, migraines, light sensitivity, and eye issues — disappeared. I had a beautiful pregnancy. It was easy. I ate ice cream every day. It was lovely.

We found out that she was stuck in my pelvis upside down so I had to have a C-section to get her out. I went into labor two and a half weeks early. I had a planned C-section that was now moved forward. But that went perfectly fine. She was small but healthy and has been growing like a vine ever since.

It was a full-circle moment. I knew that if I wanted to be a mom, I could go and adopt but I wanted to feel [being pregnant]. I remember bargaining with God. “I’ll do anything. Anything. You just let me feel it one time,” and I got lucky.

She was small but healthy and has been growing like a vine ever since. It was a full-circle moment.

Words of advice

Hold on with an iron grip. I believe in manifestation. I believe that our universe is listening to us. If you think it, believe it, pray it, hold on to it, eat and breathe it, and obsess about it in a positive way, you’d be surprised at [the] results. It might not be exactly the way that you planned it, but it’ll be close.

We all came from stardust so to be where we are right now took a lot of work by forces that know you better than you know [yourself].

Does it hurt? Does it suck? Yeah. But sometimes, when things don’t work out the way that you plan them, it’s because it wasn’t your plan. Understanding that is powerful. Knowing there will be a time [when] you will look back and remember when you prayed for the things that you have.

Hold on. Keep asking questions.

When things don’t work out the way that you plan them, it’s because it wasn’t your plan and understanding that is powerful.

Renee F. leg in cast
Renee F. holding hands
Hearing other patients’ stories

After I got through leukemia, my oncologist came over and told me that he had another patient that was about my age that had just been diagnosed. She was really upset and [asked if] I could go talk to her and share my story. And I did.

It went from one patient to another [and] another to [it] becoming a routine. When my oncologist met new patients that were struggling with accepting what’s going on, he called me to come over. I’d come to the hospital, sit there, collect their hair with them and put it in the basin, share my story, and show my scars.

I wish I had people that were older that came to my bedside and told me their stories. For me, it was an eight-year-old little girl and she’s still my soul sister to this day.

We need to eliminate the shame of sharing our personal health issues and that we shouldn’t talk about this. It is private, but it’s also very emotionally deep. If we don’t talk about this kind of stuff, it will [have a] ripple effect and impact the rest of our lives.

When we talk about it, it kind of clears those clouds so that that little sliver of light gets in. It’s all you need. Just a little sliver of light.

We go through difficult things in life but to hear that somebody else went through it is comforting… When we talk about it, it kind of clears those clouds so that that little sliver of light gets in. It’s all you need. Just a little sliver of light.

Renee F. scrapbook

Renée went into remission after going through chemotherapy, full-body radiation, and a bone marrow transplant. For the next 20 years, she’s monitored closely. After a regular breast self-exam, she noticed that one of her breasts was shaped differently. A mammogram and a biopsy reveals she has stage 2 breast cancer.

Read Renée’s Stage 2 Breast Cancer story here »

Renee F. feature profile
Thank you for sharing your story, Renée!

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Acute Myeloid Leukemia Patient Stories on AML Diagnosis, Treatment & Side Effects Acute myeloid leukemia or AML is one type of leukemia, a cancer of the blood and bone marrow that happens when the bone marrow makes an abnormal type of white blood cell called myeloblasts, red blood cells, or platelets. It’s the most common
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Renée F.



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Categories
Medical Experts Medical Update Article Myeloma

Newly Diagnosed Multiple Myeloma Highlights from ASH 2022

Newly Diagnosed Multiple Myeloma Highlights from ASH 2022

What Newly Diagnosed Patients and Caregivers Need to Know

Multiple myeloma patient advocate Cindy Chmielewski has been living with myeloma for nearly 15 years. After experiencing excruciating back pain for two years, she was diagnosed with IgG Kappa stage 3 multiple myeloma.

In this conversation, she speaks with Dr. Caitlin Costello a hematologist-oncologist at the University of California, San Diego and Dr. Sagar Lonial, the chief medical officer at the Winship Cancer Institute at Emory University.

They discuss cutting-edge treatments and therapies for both transplant-eligible and transplant-ineligible patients, combination therapies and the necessity of stem cell transplants.


Janssen

Thank you to Janssen for its support of our patient education program! The Patient Story retains full editorial control over all content.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.



Introduction

Cindy Chmielewski, Myeloma Patient: I’ve been living with multiple myeloma since 2008. I was a fifth-grade teacher and I simply loved my job.

Around 2006, it became very difficult to teach. I was experiencing excruciating back pain. Standing was very hard, recess duty was almost impossible, and I couldn’t even take my class on a field trip. The tears would come down my cheeks. That’s how much pain I was in.

For the next two years, I was prescribed pain medication and physical therapy. I was a very different person than I am now. I grew up in [the] age of doctor knows best so I really didn’t question what my doctor was doing, although I thought that maybe we should be taking an X-ray of my back.

I was diagnosed with IgG kappa stage 3 multiple myeloma. The multiple myeloma was in over 99% of my bone marrow.

I started treatment immediately. The treatments back in 2008 were very different than now. In the beginning, I had a tough time. The treatments were not touching my myeloma. I had initial success, but then it stopped working. I had a stem cell transplant and that didn’t work. I was devastated. I really didn’t think I was going to live much longer.

A treatment that my doctor suggested began working for me. It worked so well that it put my disease into remission.

Cindy Chmielewski

Cindy Chmielewski with Red, ASH mascot

Since about 2010, I’ve been on maintenance therapy and able to live my life. In the meantime, I retired from teaching because I didn’t know what I was going to be doing.

I’m a different person now. I don’t teach fifth graders; I teach myeloma patients about myeloma and how important it is to be actively involved in your care, not to be that person like I was back in 2008 just blindly following doctor’s orders

It’s important to learn all you can about your myeloma, to ask questions, and to make decisions. It’s so exciting because now, there are so many treatments to choose from that if one thing stops working, there are so many other choices.

[In this conversation] I talk with two myeloma specialists about the latest happenings for the newly diagnosed population coming out [of] a meeting called ASH [American Society of Hematology].

Dr. Caitlin Costello is the hematologist-oncologist at the University of California, San Diego who specializes in treating multiple myeloma and participates in many of the myeloma clinical trials.

Dr. Sagar Lonial is the chief medical officer at the Winship Cancer Institute at Emory University, the chair of the hematology and medical oncology department, and a lead voice in the myeloma research community.

Transplant-eligible and transplant-ineligible patients

Cindy, TPS: Usually, newly diagnosed [patients] are broken up into two groups: transplant eligible and transplant ineligible. Before we even start talking about what’s happening in that area, how are those defined? How do you know if I’m transplant-eligible or ineligible?

Dr. Caitlin Costello: Good question and, actually, a bit of a moving target. [Transplant eligibility] is usually assigned at the time of diagnosis. A patient first gets diagnosed with multiple myeloma.

Historically, oncologists got kind of a gut instinct to say, “This patient is younger, older, healthier, less healthy, [have] a good performance status.” They’re independent [in] their activities of daily living. They can bathe themselves. They live alone. They do their own grocery shopping. Whatever it is. We’d look at a patient and say, “Healthy, not healthy, old, young,” and make generic assignments to people.

That’s really challenging to do when someone’s first diagnosed with myeloma because when you’re first diagnosed, you’re sick. You don’t feel good. You’ve spent months trying to figure out what’s going on. It may have taken a while to get the diagnosis at that point. Many bones have been affected by myeloma. It can be very painful. A lot of people just aren’t what we think normal health is.

Traditionally, we have made assignments when patients were first diagnosed to say, “You are healthy enough, strong enough, or well enough that you can get an intensive regimen called a bone marrow transplant or not.”

Dr. Caitlin Costello

Cindy Chmielewski mountains

There’s been a bit of an evolution to the concept of transplant eligibility as some more data has emerged to say, “Does everyone have to get a transplant?” Maybe we don’t need to use those same kinds of assignments to make that determination. 

I think the better way to distinguish between patients who may be able to get a transplant and patients who may not is frailty. Frailty is a little bit more of an objective, as opposed to a subjective, means of evaluating someone’s health and independence. 

[It can] really help identify those patients who may be candidates for more intensive therapy throughout their myeloma diagnosis and their treatment. That is kind of where we’ve landed on transplant eligibility and ineligibility. Do we think people are well enough to undergo a bone marrow transplant?

Improving frailty in patients

Cindy, TPS: Frailty is dynamic now. It can’t be just measured at one point because, throughout the course of treatment, you may improve because the treatment is helping you out.

Dr. Costello: That’s our goal. So many patients are not well when they’re first diagnosed but can turn around pretty quickly where they perk up. Their bone pain is under control [as well as] their anemia, their kidney disease, or whatever way the disease manifested. 

Treatments now are so good that patients are responding so quickly. They get better quickly. The way that your doctor first met you when you were diagnosed is unlikely the same person that they will meet two months down the road after you’ve started treatment.

Our job is to continually reassess your health and your general wellness to make that decision because what you were yesterday may not be what you are tomorrow.

Treatment for transplant-ineligible patients

Cindy, TPS: Let’s talk about that group, transplant-ineligible patients, people who may be not strong enough for their body to endure this treatment. What’s the most common type of treatment that this group of people usually get?

Dr. Costello: A bit of an evolution as well. We’ve had so many new drugs developed in multiple myeloma. When drugs get developed, they are first approved for patients who have had many prior treatments. They’re looking for the next newest and greatest. 

That’s usually how the FDA approves these drugs. They approve it and say, “Let’s just start with this group of patients.” Over the years, it gets tested with more and more patients earlier on in their diagnosis. 

Cindy Chmielewski seated

One of the things that patients with newly diagnosed myeloma, who are not planning or not eligible or too frail to go to transplant, have enjoyed is the addition of daratumumab to the first treatment you receive when you’re diagnosed. 

Daratumumab, [as] I like to describe [it], is a bit of a magnet. It’s technically called a monoclonal antibody, but it is a medicine that predominantly is given as a shot. It is particularly looking for a sign on the myeloma cells that says, “Hey, this is me.” When it finds it, like a magnet, it sticks to it. 

That helps pop it open and it pops it open with many different approaches. It’s a real kind of targeted treatment and uses your immune system to help kill as well. I have seen daratumumab evolve into the gift that keeps on giving because it really has helped so many patients [at] various time points in their disease. 

Now, being so effective, why wait? Why can’t we use it when patients are first diagnosed? That has really now turned into the optimal treatment as a basis for when older, frail, weak, or less healthy people are diagnosed with myeloma. 

But remember, we like to use multiple drugs. I think of it as like the old game of Clue. Instead of just using a candlestick, a revolver, or a lead pipe, we want to use all the tools we have together as a cocktail so that we can approach the myeloma, sneak up on it, and kill it [in] different ways. 

Daratumumab is great in combination with many different treatments. I’d say the frontrunner right now is the combination of daratumumab with lenalidomide, also known as Revlimid, plus or minus dexamethasone, which is something that we’ll get into.

What is maintenance therapy?

Cindy, TPS: Since this is a program for newly diagnosed patients, sometimes all these terms are hard to understand. Can we talk about what maintenance therapy is? Why is it important?

Dr. Sagar Lonial: That’s an important question and it gets into another important data set that was presented at ASH [2022], really focusing on [the] duration of maintenance therapy. What we know is that if you give highly effective therapy, you will get a deep response. 

Many of the measures we use to evaluate how much myeloma remains are not perfect. Even MRD, which is minimal residual disease testing at one in a million or fewer, is still not necessarily a surrogate for [the] cure or elimination of the disease. 

What we’ve learned is that a little bit of low-dose, non-intensive therapy can maintain that remission for a longer period of time. In randomized trials [where] patients that got no maintenance therapy versus patients that got Revlimid alone as maintenance therapy, the remission duration was at least double for the patients that got maintenance therapy.

The goals of maintenance therapy are to be low intensity and not necessarily impact [the] quality of life. While I’m aggressive about continuing maintenance as long as I can, I usually say we continue until progression or toxicity. Obviously, toxicity is an important variable in that discussion. 

What we now know is that high-risk myeloma patients need more than just Revlimid as maintenance therapy. Our group, and now several other groups, have shown that a drug like Velcade added to Revlimid, or carfilzomib added to Revlimid, is able to induce deeper and more durable responses, particularly in high-risk patients. Maintenance means lower intensity, but the goal is to ultimately improve outcomes.

Dr. Sagar Lonial

3 vs 2 drugs (MAIA trial)

Cindy, TPS: There were some updates in the MAIA trial at ASH [2022]. Can you tell us the latest and greatest from the MAIA trial?

Dr. Costello: The MAIA trial was designed for [the] patients that we’re talking about. They got the combination of three medicines — daratumumab, lenalidomide, and dexamethasone — and compared it to patients in that same group and only gave them two of the medicines — lenalidomide and dexamethasone. 

The whole point was to understand: is three better than two? If so, how can daratumumab help improve above and beyond just the two? It was designed for patients when they were first diagnosed, not going to transplant. [They] use these treatments for as long as they are effective and as long as it’s tolerated by the patient. 

It’s been a good number of years now since this trial started [and] ended. [They] are still following these patients for many years to try and see over time not only how successful it is but how durable it is.

The greatest thing and probably the most important thing we can do is [to] get people into remission the first go around. We like to say the first cut is the deepest. How can we have the most success when the myeloma is in its most kind of naive state? It doesn’t know any better. It’s not going to become resistant. We want to throw our best kind of weapons at it first.

[In] the MAIA trial, over the last many years, we’ve seen updates that come out that tell us time and time again that the three medicines combined are [an] extremely successful combination to get people into remission [and] keep them there. 

The durability is because we are killing so much myeloma. The myeloma you can see above the surface [and] under the surface that’s very hard to detect. We’re just killing it all.

By making the myeloma stay away, people are living longer. We’re seeing all these outcomes and results from the MAIA trial year after year, showing that the success of these three medicines together is great because it works and it lasts.

Using 4 vs. 3 drugs for treating transplant-eligible patients

Cindy, TPS: The MAIA trial was trying to see for the ineligible patients if three is better than two. For the transplant-eligible patients, I know the question is, “Is four better than three? Should we be adding daratumumab to RVd (Revlimid, Velcade, dexamethasone)?” One thing that keeps coming up is quality of life. Can we talk about 4 vs. 3 in the newly diagnosed transplant-eligible population?

Dr. Costello: If we’ve proved three is better than two medicines together, it brings up the next natural question: is four better? That question is trying to answer if [they should be] adding daratumumab to another group of patients who have just been diagnosed with myeloma.

Let’s say that this is a younger, stronger, healthier group of people, who we have historically treated with three medicines called lenalidomide, bortezomib, and dexamethasone. For the last many years, that combination has been the mainstay. It’s been the most widely accepted, most successful treatment that we’ve been able to achieve ever. But we need to always do better.

The GRIFFIN study looked at patients who were younger, healthier, stronger, going to go to transplant, divided it in half, and said, “I’m going to give you three medicines like we always do. This is the current standard of care,” or, “I’m going to give this other half four medicines.” The same treatments that the first three got — Revlimid, Velcade, dex — and add the daratumumab to it for a group of four. 

All patients got the treatment that they were assigned. All patients subsequently had a bone marrow transplant. After the transplant, all patients got consolidation and maintenance, which just means a little extra therapy after your transplant, followed by some amount of maintenance therapy, which is usually either fewer drugs or lower doses as a means of maintaining the successes you’ve had from all the treatments prior.

By comparing four drugs to three drugs for this group, again, daratumumab keeps winning. We see that daratumumab is effective at deepening response, killing more myeloma, making it get into remission more likely, [and] allowing patients to get back to themselves, to get stronger, and to continue on some amount of medicine that’s going to allow the myeloma to stay in remission in very deep ways. 

Again, seeing the same outcomes we saw in MAIA, the addition of daratumumab to our standard of care allows for great successes that last.

Do you think the 4-drug combination will be the new standard of care?

Cindy, TPS: Do you think the four-drug combination is going to be the new standard of care for newly diagnosed myeloma patients?

Dr. Costello: I don’t think “will.” I’m already doing it. It’s hard to ignore the data when it’s that good. Granted, the reason I think why you’re asking is because the trial that was done was technically a phase 2 trial, where [there is] a lot of drug development and new combinations.

The people that are the most critical of statistics and evaluating successes are the ones that really want to see what we call big studies, phase 3 trials, randomized data, or you’re comparing the standard to something new and novel. Those are happening. The same drugs, the same study, more patients — it’s happening. We’ll get that information. 

But on the same token, if I already have some information that shows me just how effective it is with a good number of people, I don’t want to wait. I want to do good and do well [for] these patients with these early successes that we’re seeing now. I think it’s here.

Who is eligible for quad-based therapy?

Cindy, TPS: When you’re talking about quads upfront, are we talking about all patients? How about frail, transplant-ineligible patients? 

Dr. Lonial: I think it typically tends to be the transplant-eligible [patients]. If somebody is frail enough that transplant is not really an option for them, I’m a little concerned about whether you can really give them a quad. 

There are some trials that are testing that right now and I’d like to see some of that data. In general, for the truly frail patient, the dara-len-dex (daratumumab, lenalidomide, and dexamethasone) combination is so good. Median remission is five years. It works regardless of age. That was evaluated in the MAIA trial.

I think that that’s a pretty good regimen and I’d like to see whether adding in bortezomib to make it four drugs really does improve not just death but [the] duration of response or lets us discontinue therapy at a certain point, which would be a huge step forward for that patient population.

Cindy, TPS: We’re talking about dara-len-dex upfront for the frail as opposed to RVd upfront. Is there a role for RVd now? Should it be a quad or dara-len-dex?

Dr. Lonial: I think there is a role for RVd in the frail patient, with weekly bortezomib in a patient that may have [a] high-risk disease. I still do believe that the proteasome inhibitor adds benefit there.

I don’t think carfilzomib is necessarily the right drug [for] a frail patient. I am still using RVd, in the beginning likely without dara, but certainly willing to add it in if I need to, if we don’t get where we want to go.

What does it mean to be high-risk?

Cindy, TPS: What do you mean by high risk?

Dr. Lonial: There are both clinical and laboratory features of high-risk myeloma that I think people should be aware of. 

An elevated LDH, lactate dehydrogenase, is one evidence of that. Circulating plasma cells [are] another laboratory evidence of extramedullary disease. Genetics, meaning FISH (fluorescence in situ hybridization) testing, looking for certain high-risk genetics on the myeloma cells. Things like 17p deletion, where you’re missing p53, 4;14 translocation, 14;16 translocation. In general, those are considered high-risk features. 

On the clinical side, patients that present with a lot of myeloma outside of the bone marrow, extramedullary disease if you will, tends to be high-risk disease as well. Some of these characteristics you can identify on lab tests. Some of them you can identify on exams or imaging. Those are the general rules that we use to try and evaluate risk at the time of diagnosis.

Side effects for different drug combinations

Cindy, TPS: The other thing that patients always are concerned about are side effects. Are there more side effects with the four drugs than [with] the three? What about quality of life? What are you seeing in your clinic?

Dr. Costello: The addition of daratumumab to any of these regimens, fortunately, is a reasonably well-tolerated medication. It is initially a little bit more inconvenient because of the frequency of the dosing. 

This drug is given once a week for eight weeks then every two weeks for another eight times. After those first six months, it goes down to once a month, which is a very attractive option for patients. They can just come in once a month, get their blood drawn, get a shot, and get out of there. From a perspective on [the] quality of life from inconvenience, I think it’s a really nice option. 

The greater side effect we think about — there’s probably two, I would say — that we’ve learned a lot in the midst of a COVID era.

One is [a] very small risk: 1 out of 10 patients with the first injection may have what we call an injection-related reaction, where patients may, kind of like a bee sting, have a variety of reactions.

Like a bee sting, you may get a little red spot, but some other people may need to have an EpiPen. With your first dose, we have to kind of stare at you a little bit [to] make sure that you’re not having those reactions. After that first administration, the likelihood of having a reaction is somewhere about 1 to 2% thereafter, so very low. The reaction risk is small but important.

The second one — and I think it’s a little bit more relevant these COVID-era days — is that multiple myeloma patients inherently have a weakened immune system. Their immune system is so busy making myeloma that it’s not making adequate amounts of your normal immunity. 

If you take a drug that’s designed to kill the immune system problem, you’re going to take some innocent bystanders with it. The daratumumab is going to try and kill all those myeloma cells, but those myeloma cells are plasma cells. Plasma cells are designed to make the weapons you need to kill the bad guys, whatever it is — flu, COVID, pneumonia, whatever. 

If we are taking patients who already have a somewhat weakened immune system or [are] trying to get their immune system to build back up, there is going to be some effect on the immune system that puts patients more at risk for getting infections. 

It’s important to make sure we are prepared for that. Vaccinating against the handful of different things we know are important for myeloma patients, whether it’s COVID, flu, or pneumonia, and sometimes using preventative antibiotics when patients are first diagnosed. 

I’m glad to say that unlike other medications that we use with myeloma that cause neuropathy where you have numbness, diarrhea, or severe fatigue — things that really can affect your day-to-day lifestyle — I don’t think daratumumab affects it as much.

The necessity of stem cell transplant (DETERMINATION trial)

Cindy, TPS: We have all these wonderful drugs that you’ve been talking about now. In the era of these novel therapies, is stem cell transplant still needed initially?

Dr. Costello: The million-dollar question. It’s ironic because it keeps getting asked. I think everyone is so hopeful that we can get rid of auto transplants because we have all these new medicines. Every time a new medicine comes out, the question is posed. A trial is done to say, “Do we still need [a] transplant or is this better?” 

That’s what this trial was designed to do. It took patients who were eligible for transplant, divided them in half, and gave everybody the same medicine: our triplet combination of Revlimid, Velcade, and dex.

[Then they] said, “You get this and you go to transplant. You get this and you don’t go to transplant. Let’s see what happens between those two,” with the idea of looking at [if] one group [is] going to have their myeloma come back sooner than the other group. 

The DETERMINATION study was the U.S. version of it. The French had their own version and they’re always ahead of the game with us with clinical trials. They were able to complete enrollment, get the results, [and] publish it well before we did. 

They showed that patients who got [a] transplant stayed in remission longer than those who didn’t. But after looking at the data for a handful of years, what they saw was that there was no difference in how long people lived. 

[There are] lots of arguments about whether that is important — and one would argue yes — [and] whether enough time had passed by to say, “Here we are. We keep applauding and patting ourselves on the back for how well these treatments are working. Maybe we haven’t had the full time pass by, enough to say that there’s going to be a great difference in survival or not.” 

When the Americans did theirs, the only subtle minor difference was that after [the] transplant, patients stayed on Revlimid maintenance indefinitely, as long as the maintenance was working. 

If they did not go [for a] transplant, they stayed on Revlimid as long as it was working, which was different from the French. They only took it for 12 months and then stopped. 

There were a good number of people who stopped therapy and often never had progression for 6 [to] 7 years. What the American side of the trial showed was similar. The transplant group stayed in remission longer. 

The survival was no different, but there did seem to be improved time to staying in remission because, we think, of the longer-lasting use of the maintenance Revlimid. 

I think it begs the question: is it that we need to get rid of transplant or is it that transplant is complementary? They parsed through that data left, right, up, and down to try and understand: was it the blondes who did better, was it the African Americans who did better, or [did] someone who had different kidney function do better? 

[They] tried really to see: is it a general statement we can make across the board? I think the thing that was the most helpful for me to try and parse through whether or not transplant was important or still has a role… While I would love to know that it saves lives, let me hearken back to my “the first cut is the deepest” comment. 

If we are really trying to make a deep impact in myeloma when it’s first diagnosed with the presumption that that’s going to allow for the longest periods of remission until the next newest and greatest comes out, then it’s pretty clear the way they parse the data to say that those who had transplant are more likely to get to what we call MRD negativity, minimal residual disease, which is [myeloma] way under the surface. 

We have lots of tricks to count myeloma. I can do a bone marrow biopsy instead of my pathologists. They look under the microscope and say, “Yep, I see it. Nope, I don’t.” But in 2023, shouldn’t we have super high-tech technology that can look for myeloma in the smallest little micron of DNA?

Dr. Costello: We want to try and get rid of every last bit of myeloma because those patients, we can tell time and time again now, are the ones who are staying in remission the longest.

The DETERMINATION study was helpful for me to say we’re not saving lives. We’re not letting people, as far as we know, live longer because of doing a transplant, but we are having patients stay in remission by doing it. 

Maybe we need more time to pass by, maybe we don’t. I think for the meantime, transplant really seems to me — disclaimer, I’m a transplant-er — that it’s complementary. I think it works with our novel agents, not better or worse than our novel agents.

Dr. Costello: Maybe we can try and figure out if our initial treatments didn’t do the job, maybe that’s the group of people who should proceed. So stay tuned. Lots to come.

Dr. Lonial: I think that with the results of the DETERMINATION study, it’s pretty clear to me that even with good drugs, transplant continues to offer [a] benefit. 

There are a lot of folks that say, “Well, if you’re already MRD-negative [and] it’s cycle 4, maybe you don’t need the transplant.” We actually don’t have any data that says that. My goal is to maximize the duration of that first remission because the myeloma is never more sensitive than it is at the time of the first presentation. 

By the time it relapses once or twice, you may lose the ability to gain the benefit from high-dose therapy, really high-dose melphalan. Certainly, at our center, we encourage patients to go into transplant in the first remission.

IVIG and daratumumab

Cindy, TPS: What about the use of IVIG with dara? Is that being used at all?

Dr. Costello: It is. I call [IVIG] a magic trick to try and build your immunity up a bit. Whether your myeloma is not making enough of an immune system or the treatments have compromised your immune system, your IgG, which is one of your weapons to kill the bad guys, can be decreased, can be accidentally killed, [or] can [be] whatever to suppress your immune system. 

If your immune system is weak because your IgG levels are low, why don’t I just give you some IgG? That’s what IVIG is: intravenous immunoglobulin. If I can give you some booster to your immune system, perhaps that will prevent some of these infections from happening. 

Historically, the way IVIG has been approached is to say if someone has severe, recurrent, life-threatening infections, those patients should receive IVIG. As we’re getting more and more aware of some of these infections that can happen with a variety of different medications that are out there for multiple myeloma, I know I have become much more liberal with my IVIG use because I think it could only potentially help.

Dexamethasone

Cindy, TPS: Let’s talk about this other drug that’s been around forever. As a matter of fact, I think in ancient times it was the only drug used to treat myeloma: dexamethasone. It’s always part of every combination.

Some studies being presented show that in the frail population, after a couple [of] rounds of therapy, we can maybe start lowering or dropping dex. Can you talk a little bit about that, too?

Dr. Lonial: In my experience and those of many of my colleagues, when we use dex, particularly in older, frailer patients, we tend to use a lower dose and for a shorter duration of time.

In my mind, the maximum benefit of dexamethasone is the first four to six months. I will often start to taper after the first or second cycle to try and get to lower doses and then hope to be off between month 6 and month 12.

That approach is something that many of us are doing in general. [For] patients getting daratumumab, for instance, the label says dex before and after the dose. We only have to do that for the first two cycles at the most then you can get away with dex around daratumumab.

The same with Tylenol and Benadryl that is often used as pre-med. I know a lot of people say, “Benadryl knocks me out for the next 6 to 12 hours.” After the first few doses of dara, you don’t really need that anymore.

Some of that is just experience, knowing that that’s what we did in the early trials, and that it’s okay to do it now. If you’re not seeing somebody that sees a lot of myeloma, you may just be on a plug-and-play where everything just gets recycled from cycle to cycle without necessarily reducing or taking them off to make life easier for the patient.

Dr. Costello: Dex is clearly the drug that everyone loves to hate. I think it’s important to say that dex is an oldie but a goodie. It’s been around for a long time. It is not a chemo, but it is designed inherently to kill myeloma. 

That’s an important part because patients oftentimes ask, “Well, can I just stop it?” I want to say, “Yes, but remember, consider this part of your treatment regimen also.”

It is hard. I’ve heard people say, “It’s a dex day,” and I look at the spouse or the caregiver and say, “How’s it going?” Because that can affect your quality of life more than any of the other treatments do. People plan out their lives around the days they’re taking dex or the days after their dex.

It behooves us to really understand the importance of dex for all of these regimens because if it is playing a huge role in killing myeloma, then sometimes, it’s worth it. 

If we are using it for an initial period of time to make a dent in the myeloma, for example, if we can get people off dex and continue the rest of the treatment, sometimes that makes it much more manageable for everyone across the board, let alone older, frailer patients.

At ASH, we heard about a trial [that] was one of the first, if not the first, randomized trial that was done specifically for frail myeloma patients. This trial took frailer patients, divided them in half, and said, “One half, you’re going to get Revlimid and dexamethasone. The other half, we’re going to do Revlimid, but instead of the dexamethasone, we’re going to do daratumumab.”

It’s similar to the MAIA study we’ve talked about when combining daratumumab and Rev, but this time with the hope of using as little dexamethasone as possible to see if these two groups, both receiving two medicines, can have good outcomes still without using the steroid in the study arm.

Now, I’ll say that these patients did get dex for the first two cycles, I think it was. That’s important. I think dex plays a role in helping to mitigate reactions to the daratumumab. Beyond that, maybe we can get rid of it.

They compared these two groups and said, “Dara-Rev, Rev-dex, how does it go?” Again, the dara-Rev group won. It is possible, we’ve learned, to get rid of the dex on our older, frailer patients. 

[It] is [likely] going to be practice changing to say if we can drop the dex as soon as possible, patients may not have the same side effects: emotional lability, water retention, feeling swollen, appetite, [and] not sleeping at night.

If it’s not going to play a huge role, it’s in the best interest of everyone to get rid of it. This was the first time we’ve seen not only for a frail group but how we can successfully get rid of dex. I think it’s practice-changing.

Cindy, TPS: My house was always the cleanest on dex stays and most organized.

Dr. Costello: It just really affects everybody in different ways, but it’s life-changing.

FasTCAR T cell therapy

Cindy, TPS: Is there anything that we did not touch upon that you think we need to share about the newly diagnosed multiple myeloma patients from ASH?

Dr. Costello: One thing I really liked from ASH [is] super exciting. I don’t know if this is here to stay. It was only 17 patients, but the FasTCAR study in the newly diagnosed myeloma.

This was a Chinese group that developed a CAR T-cell. Right now, there [are] two different CAR T-cells that are approved by the FDA for refractory myeloma for patients who’ve had more than four prior lines of therapy. Again, these are patients who had myeloma [for] a long time. They’ve had lots of treatments. 

Right now, it’s not available in the U.S. for patients who are just diagnosed. The Chinese designed a CAR T-cell and have started doing clinical trials, evaluating it for someone who’s just diagnosed with multiple myeloma. 

In the U.S., the CAR T-cells that we have take five [or] six weeks, sometimes longer, to manufacture. [The Chinese study] figured out how to manufacture it in one to two days. The initial results they presented at ASH showed that it worked for 100% of the people they treated and 100% of those patients were MRD negative, meaning that they cleared out every last myeloma cell. 

One of the things that we are very excited about is CAR T in general, but how can we use it earlier in the disease course? This is one of the first trials we’ve seen where somebody is trying exactly that with what seems like good success. Disclaimer: it’s a very small group of people. To be determined, but exciting.

Cindy, TPS: It was exciting. I like the idea of the FasTCAR because even the FasTCAR in the relapsed/refractory setting would be helpful because too many people are waiting too long or they don’t have [the] ability to wait.

Seeing a myeloma specialist

Cynthia, TPS: This is something that patients should be asking their doctors if their doctor didn’t tell them. You’re always giving us this little pep talk that all patients at some point should go see a myeloma specialist. Can you explain that again?

Dr. Lonial: The field is moving really fast. Things [change] once, twice, three times, or 10 times a year.

We’ve had multiple drugs approved in the last four years. Even through COVID, we still saw drug approvals. I think that the field is moving fast enough that if you have a really good general oncologist, they may be able to keep up to date, but they may not know the latest and greatest.

For that reason, I think having a myeloma center of record, if you will — a place that’s close to you, a team you feel comfortable with — that can partner with your local oncologist really guarantees that you’re getting access to the latest and greatest agents or combinations [and] that your team knows what approaches are going to be the most forward-thinking approaches to keep you going for the longest period of time.

Conclusion

Cindy, TPS: We talked to Doctors Lonial and Costello about newly diagnosed myeloma patients and treatment options for them. We learned about transplant-ineligible patients and the MAIA trial. We’ve talked about transplant-eligible patients, the GRIFFIN trial, and different ways to modify treatment. We also talked about stem cell transplant and if it’s really necessary. 

It’s really important to be actively involved in your care. Take some of these points of information and have discussions with your doctor to see what may be the best treatment options for you.


Janssen

Special thanks again to Janssen for its support of our independent patient education content. The Patient Story retains full editorial control.


Multiple Myeloma Patient Stories

Clay

Clay D.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma
1st Symptoms:
Persistent kidney issues, nausea
Treatment:
chemo, radiation, stem cell transplant
...
Melissa

Melissa V.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, stage 3
1st Symptoms:
Frequent infections
Treatment:
IVF treatment & Chemotherapy (RVD) for 7 rounds
...

Elise D.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, refractory
1st Symptoms: Lower back pain, fractured sacrum
Treatment: CyBorD, Clinical trial of Xpovio (selinexor)+ Kyprolis (carfilzomib) + dexamethasone
...
Marti P multiple myeloma

Marti P.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, stage 3



1st Symptoms: Dizziness, confusion, fatigue, vomiting, hives



Treatment: Chemotherapy (Bortezomib/Velcade), Daratumumab/ Darzalex, Lenalidomide, Revlimid) and stem cell transplant
...
Ray H. feature

Ray H.



1st signs: Hemorrhoids, low red blood cell count
Treatment: Immunotherapy, Chemotherapy, Stem Cell Transplant
...
Valarie T. feature profile

Valarie T.



Symptoms: Nose bleeds, fatigue, back pain
Treatment: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant
...
Jenny A. feature profile

Jenny A.



Symptoms: Nose bleeds, fatigue, back pain
Treatment: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant
...
Keith G.

Keith G.



Symptoms: High levels of protein
Treatment: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant
...
Julie C.

Julie C.



Symptoms: Queasiness, food aversions, lack of appetite, fatigue
Treatment: Stem cell transplant, chemotherapy (D+PD), bispecific antibodies (talquetamab & cevostamab)
...
Erin H. feature profile

Erin H.



Symptoms: Back pains
Treatment: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant
...
Gregory P. feature profile

Gregory P.



Symptoms: Back pains
Treatment: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant
...
Laura E. feature profile

Laura E.



Symptom: Increasing back pain
Treatments: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant, bispecific antibodies
...

Categories
Bladder Cancer Patient Stories

Bladder Cancer Series: Patient Stories

Bladder Cancer Series: Through the Eyes of Black Women

“The Bladder Cancer Series,” focuses on Ebony, who was diagnosed with stage N2 bladder cancer, and LaSonya, who was diagnosed with high-grade bladder cancer.

In this series, they open up about their cancer journey, including their first symptoms, how they processed their diagnosis, how they decided on treatment options, and how they found support.

Dr. Samuel Washington, a urologic surgeon who specializes in oncology at the University of California San Francisco, also gives an overview of bladder cancer and its treatments.


Janssen

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Thank you to Janssen Oncology for its support of our patient education program! The Patient Story retains full editorial control over all content.

This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.



Ebony G.
Ebony G.

Introduction

Ebony G.: I’m married. I have three sons. I’m an engineer by day.

I just want to live my best life and help others do the same.

LaSonya D.: I’m a variety of things. I’m a black woman, that’s the most obvious when you look at me, but I’m also a mother [and] a wife. I am a professor of nursing.

LaSonya D.
LaSonya D.

Initial symptoms

Ebony: After an annual visit with my gynecologist, they noticed a microscopic level of blood in my urine.

LaSonya: I had just recovered from an elective procedure and I was getting ready to go back to my regular work. One day, I noticed that I have blood in my urine.

Ebony's surgery day
Ebony on the day of her surgery

What was your reaction to the diagnosis?

Ebony: I was 45 when I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I was like a ball of tears. At that moment, I remember thinking, “I’m going to die.”

It was pretty traumatic by myself in the office, but the nurse tried to reassure me and tell me, “You’re going to be okay.”

LaSonya: It’s devastating. How did I get this? No one in my family on either side has a history of cancer. How could this be? I don’t even know one black person that has this type of cancer.

I was a nervous wreck at that point. I felt so defeated and deflated. I just could not believe that this was happening to me.

Overview of bladder cancer

Dr. Samuel Washington: In general, we think of bladder cancer as either being muscle invasive, so growing into the muscle wall of the bladder, versus non-muscle invasive, where it’s just on the surface or on the lining of the inside of the bladder itself.

Dr. Samuel Washington

Treatment options for bladder cancer

Dr. Washington: Our treatments are different depending on which group you are in.

We know that patients for whom the bladder cancer has grown into the muscle, across the board, people are not getting what our guidelines say they should be getting. Depending on the cohort you’re thinking about, half will get some guideline-concordant treatment.

Dr. Samuel Washington scrubbing in

Now, there’s a question of guidelines being appropriate versus equitable, but we know that based on where you live, how far you are from a facility that treats bladder cancer routinely, [and] who you are, are all things that can impact the quality of care and the type of care that you get.

I think those are the key things that we see in bladder cancer that we hope to look at with some of our research. 

Guidelines in general are a set of recommendations by our overarching governing body telling us, based on the most updated literature in research and the consensus statement of experts, what this patient should have based on the type of cancer or disease that they have. It’s taking the mystery out of medicine, but it’s really an algorithm. We find where these people fit in terms of staging and characteristics, we look at the guidelines, and they tell us what should offer the best outcomes for them.

Information for bladder cancer patients

Dr. Washington: There’s a lot of ongoing research for patients who are interested in more information about bladder cancer, the treatments, support groups, and ongoing research.

There are many outlets out there. Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network is one that is focused entirely on this. Ask your provider. “Are there resources that I can look at? Are there clinical trials or support groups for information?”

Importance of having a support system

LaSonya: Three weeks after diagnosis, I was able to have my surgery for the resection. [While] waiting to have my surgery, I had questions for this doctor. I knew right away that this was going to be very stressful, not just for me but for my family. I knew that in order for me to get through this, I was going to need help.

A lot of times, people think that you have to take everything on yourself, especially being from my culture. Mental health is very taboo. People take it as a weakness when you need to seek out help mentally. You always hear people say, “Be strong. Suck it up. You can do this. Don’t be weak-minded,” those kinds of things.

We are human beings. We are not robots and machines. We have feelings. I joined a bladder cancer support group on Facebook. I just started looking for bladder cancer support.

LaSonya D. seated with heart-shaped pillow

Ebony with part of her team at Duke Raleigh

Ebony: I remember looking in the social media group, trying to just scroll and see: who can I relate to?

The power of connection

LaSonya: There was something in the background of her picture that let me know that she was in the same sorority that I was. When I saw that, I just got so excited, especially because there [are] not very many black people at all [in] the support group. There isn’t a high percentage of black people that have bladder cancer. I was so excited.


Episode 2

The power of connection

LaSonya: When Ebony came on to the bladder cancer support group, she posted something and there was something in the background of her picture that let me know that she was in the same sorority that I was in.

Ebony: [She] was like, “OMG, hi, sorority sister. We’re here together.” That was so encouraging because I was looking for someone that looked like me. [I] hadn’t found anyone [who] looked like me that was fighting and winning at bladder cancer. To find her was huge for me because it’s like, “Yes, we can absolutely identify on even more levels.”

LaSonya: I got so excited, especially because there [were] not very many black people at all in the support group. There’s just not a high percentage of black people that have bladder cancer.

Ebony: It was instant. You know everything that I’m feeling. You can relate specifically to the loss of hair. You can relate specifically to darkening complexions. [The chemotherapy] also made certain parts of my skin darker. You can relate specifically to all those things.

LaSonya: It’s very important. It keeps you going. It empowers you. 

Ebony G. sorority

Ebony G. in the hospital

Black women have higher stages of the disease & worse survival rates

Ebony: We initially thought it was a UTI so I was prescribed an antibiotic and then thought, “Okay, we’re good to go.” It kept going. What’s going on?

[I felt] despair at some points because I just really didn’t know. I was wondering if there was something underlying. I was Googling things [and] trying to figure [it] out. [I was] just confused and lost as to how the professionals don’t know.

I remember thinking, I trusted you for a year and a half to try to find something. What was it about everything that has gone on in the past year and a half where you didn’t find anything?

LaSonya: It seemed like it was a lot of blood. I saw some blood clots and I was thinking, I know I’m not on my menstrual cycle. What is going on? Maybe it’s something from my surgical procedure.

I called my surgeon and he said, “It doesn’t seem like something related to your surgery. Let’s do a urinalysis and see if you have a urinary tract infection.” I did that [and] it came back negative for infection, but positive for blood.

Signs & symptoms of bladder cancer “tend to be missed” in women

Dr. Samuel Washington: Women who are found to have repeated tests of blood in the urine or see blood in the urine sometimes can be attributed to recurrent urinary tract infections. Whether or not there’s a positive urine culture [or] urine test showing bacteria, they will be routinely treated with antibiotics.

But what is missing is the workup to make sure that it’s not cancer that’s hiding there and causing the bleeding. That can lead to delays as people get treated with antibiotics and you don’t see any change in the symptoms. It’s because we’re not treating it correctly.

LaSonya D. CSUCI

Differences in survival: access to care and type of care

Dr. Washington: A lot of the research that I’ve looked at is around race as a social construct, so not just biology and seeing that there’s a [biological] difference and that that is the cause of the differences and outcomes that we’re seeing, but how society is framing these people: black vs. white, insured vs. not, educated vs. not. All these different identities impact one another to lead to these outcomes that we’re seeing that our differences between groups.

Dr. Samuel Washington in OR

I commonly say no one’s intentionally contributing to disparities but also, very few of us are actively monitoring our own outcomes. The educational materials that we use, the required health literacy level for that, how we provide access to care for different patients, things that could help patients in terms of transportation, social work, and so on. Those things are not commonly measured at the same level that we monitor cancer diagnoses.

Representation matters: finding the right doctor

LaSonya: I was looking for a doctor that looked like me because I felt like I could trust a doctor that looked like me.

It’s just the things I don’t have to explain [like] the culture. There are certain things that when you’re holistically looking at a person or a patient, in my perspective, when I’m taking care of patients, I look at them holistically. 

Overcoming obstacles 

Ebony: I want people to know: you’re not the only one. I have fought through this.

I want to be the evidence, the example. I try to tell people, “I do consider myself a miracle and if you’re ever looking for evidence to help encourage you, let me be your evidence. You can fight this and win.”

Ebony G.


Episode 3

The impacts of bladder cancer

Ebony: As a Black woman, it actually takes a long time for our hair to get to the lengths we enjoy.

[I have] a lot of pride and joy in my hair. I call it my crown. For about seven or eight years, I decided to become natural so [I didn’t use] any chemical products in my hair [or] any relaxers to relax my curl pattern.

To find out it’s all going to come out, I think to myself, Is it going to grow back?

I was devastated. How am I going to manage not having hair? That was honestly the tip of all of the side effects that were going to come from it but the initial thought was [losing my] hair.

I remember getting it cut and coming home that night. My husband started crying. He was like, “You’re really having to do this. Here we go.”

3 main paths after the bladder removal surgery

Ebony: There were a few options. I could have the bag outside of the body. My brain was like, Okay, that’s the option. [A] bag outside of my body that I would need to empty.

I was wondering how my clothes are going to fit. Am I going to have to have additional things [I would need] to use the bathroom? Am I going to have to change what I wear? I usually would wear fitted things. Am I going to have this bag that’s going to dictate [that]? Am I still going to be what I thought was attractive? You name it, I thought all those thoughts.

Then there was an Indiana pouch, which my doctor didn’t do, and the neobladder, which is what I decided to go with.

Ebony G.

Ebony recovering from surgery

How much life changed after the bladder removal surgery

Ebony: My first appointment with the urologist was accompanied [by] this 3-inch binder [with] tons of information. There were sections [that talked] about what could happen after the surgery. One of those things was you could lose all ability to control how you use the bathroom. Those were the fears that I had.

[It covered] how it could impact your sexual relationships, your sexual relationship with your spouse. I remember thinking, Okay, this is a whole lot more than what I initially bargained for.

LaSonya: When you’re thinking about being married, young, and not having a vagina, that could be traumatic to your relationship. I never would have thought to ask but somebody in my support group brought it up. I talked to her and she became one of my close friends, too.

When she had her bladder removal surgery, they removed all of her vagina except for maybe two inches, which [meant] that she would have to come back later and have a reconstruction of her vagina. I was like, “Oh no, that is what I’m not doing. I don’t have [a] muscle-invasive disease so it’s not out of my bladder. I do not want to have no vagina.”

I was able to consult with the plastic surgeon. He went through the procedure. I said, “If they get in there and there’s a problem, I expect to wake up and still have a vagina.” He said, “If they get in there and they have to remove everything, then I’ll either take part of your muscle from your thigh or from your abdomen and I will make you a vagina. You’re not going to wake up and not have a vagina no matter what.”

It seems like something small when you have cancer, but it’s not. It’s still quality of life.

One of the things I was able to tell Ebony was, “Make sure you talk to them about vaginal sparing [so] you don’t wake up like another friend [who] only [has] a two-inch vagina and nobody told you anything.”

There [have] been a lot of people on the site whose partners left them. They have cancer and their partners leave. Because mentally, they can’t handle it or this situation. They can’t wrap their head around the fact that their sex life is going to be very different.

Ebony: I remember thinking, “As a woman, am I going to be able to help you meet your needs? Are you going to be disappointed still being married to me? Because now this ‘for better or worse’ is looking a whole lot worse than when we started 16 years ago.”

I would find myself stressing [about] what the outcome would be. That’s when my husband would come back and say, “Right here. We’re going to conquer the day. We’re just going to conquer the day.”

LaSonya: This is important. This is quality of life. It’s not just about living. It’s living your life abundantly and having the best life that you can possibly have.


Episode 4

Ebony G.

The power of the patient

Ebony: At the end of the day, no one knows your body like you do.

I just challenge everyone out there. Doctors are doctors, but they are practicing medicine. They’re practicing, so they will not know everything. You know your body more than anyone else.

What the medical industry can do is put more faces in the forefront of people who are doing well, who are receiving the treatment, who have found their way, [and] who are winners. Not only people who have won the fight, but put people who are open and willing to help people win the fight.

We need to see that the system cares about us. We need to see that, because for decades, we’ve seen so many systems that don’t.

LaSonya: He had a picture in his mind of who I was and what my life was like. He already had his own stereotypical thoughts about who I was.

I actually worked in the same healthcare organization that he worked in. He did not treat me well as a patient. Thankfully, because I’m a clinician, I was able to identify that right away.

Go with your gut. If you feel like something is not quite right, get a second opinion. You’re entitled to a second opinion and some insurance will even pay for a third opinion. Do not feel like you’re stuck with that person.

I never have been one to put all my trust in another human being. I felt like I needed to do my own research and have my own questions ready so that I know that I’m getting the best care possible. The experience I have with urologists made it even [clearer] to me that my approach is the best approach for me.
You have to do what’s right for you. Get all the information that you possibly can and then you decide what’s best for you. You’re the one that’s going to have to live with your decision.

LaSonya D. home

Dr. Samuel Washington UCSF

Black urologists in the U.S. are extremely underrepresented

Dr. Washington: Not infrequently, a Black patient will say that they’re happy to see me or someone that looks like me. It may not be important for everyone, but I think for some patients, it is a game changer in their comfort with the care that they’re getting.

[In] the urologic workforce, less than 3% of us are Black. A much smaller percentage when you start to chip away and look at different subspecialties.

Often, I think what it comes down to is for them, there is a shared life experience that we have that provides more comfort. That doesn’t mean that other practitioners that don’t look like them will not offer good care, but it does potentially provide a level of comfort that is not something that they’ve encountered before.


Special thanks again to Janssen for its support of our independent patient education content. The Patient Story retains full editorial control.


Bladder Cancer Patient Stories

Vickie D.

Vickie D.



Symptoms: Intermittent pain in the gut and burning sesnsation
Treatment: Chemotherapy (dd-MVAC) and cystectomy (bladder removal surgery)

Margo W.



1st Symptoms: Blood in urine



Treatment: Chemotherapy (methotrexate, vinblastine, doxorubicin and cisplatin) and radical cystectomy
LaSonya D. feature profile

LaSonya D.



Symptom: Blood in urine
Treatment: BCG immunotherapy, cystectomy (bladder removal surgery)
LaSonya D. feature profile
LaSonya D., Bladder Cancer Diagnosis: High-Grade Bladder Cancer Symptoms: Clumps of blood in urine Treatment: Surgery, bladder removal, urinary diversion
Karen R. feature photo

Karen R.



Symptoms: Recurrent UTIs
Treatment: BCG immunotherapy

Ebony G.



1st Symptoms: Blood in urine, weight gain



Treatment: MVAC chemotherapy, bladder removal surgery, neobladder

Diagnosis and Treatment for Bladder Cancer

Learn about the diagnosis and treatment process from bladder cancer survivors and medical experts. Discover diagnosis and treatment options./p>


Bladder Cancer Series



Bladder cancer patients Ebony & LaSonya talk about their cancer journey, including their first symptoms, how they processed their diagnosis, treatment options, and how they found support. Dr. Samuel Washington, a urologic surgeon, also gives an overview of bladder cancer and its treatments.

Bladder Cancer Causes & Symptoms

Understand common bladder cancer causes, urine color, symptoms, and treatments as described by real patients./p>

Categories
Medical Experts Medical Update Article MPNs

Myelofibrosis Highlights from ASH 2022

Myelofibrosis Highlights from ASH 2022: What Patients & Caregivers Need to Know

Patient advocate Ruth Fein has been living with MPN for nearly 30 years. Despite the diagnosis, she lives a very active and full life.

In this conversation, she speaks with Dr. Serge Verstovsek, founder and director of the largest MPN clinical research center in the world, and Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju, director of MD Anderson’s rare disease program and executive director of the Cancer Network.

They discuss cutting-edge treatments and therapies, combination therapy as a focus in treating myelofibrosis, and the importance of being an educated patient and being your own advocate.


Karyopharm Therapeutics logo

Thank you to Karyopharm Therapeutics for its support of our patient education program! The Patient Story retains full editorial control over all content.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.



Introduction

Ruth Fein, Myelofibrosis Patient: I’m an MPN patient with myelofibrosis. I’ve been living with one form or another of an MPN for nearly 30 years. When I was first diagnosed in the 90s, [it wasn’t] even called a blood disorder.

What I went through in diagnosis is very different than what’s happening today, where the initial diagnosis is that Big C, which of course is a fear I didn’t have to deal with. But now with myelofibrosis, it’s a game changer.

I’m very fortunate, as we all are, that research is moving so rapidly, changing our prognosis as the research advances. In fact, [I’ve been] on a clinical trial [for] almost three years now.

I remember it really clearly. I was in New York. It was supposed to be a routine appointment. Rain was pouring hard. I was soaking wet. I was carrying around my luggage. I sat down for my appointment with my super specialist and I’d had a bone marrow biopsy that surprised me. I had a new diagnosis. All of a sudden, I went from ET (essential thrombocythemia) to PV (polycythemia vera) to myelofibrosis, and that’s the progression people are worried about.

Immediately, I felt shocked. Then three hours later, I felt completely comfortable.

Ruth Fein and husband Danny

I’m seeing a super MPN specialist and she said, “I have the perfect clinical trial for you.” I got all the information [and] decided it made sense for me — that was three years ago and I am doing incredibly well.

I’m still gardening. I’m a health and science writer. I garden, I walk every day, I cycle, I swim. I’m the mother of two adult boys, a wife of a very active, wonderful man, and I happen to be a patient with myelofibrosis as opposed to my life being about myelofibrosis. My life is very full.

There’s so much we can do as patients to ensure that we’re getting the best care we can [get] to help us live longer and to live well as long as we’re here. And that’s why we have these conversations so we can bring you the expertise and the collective wisdom of the super specialists in the world.

Today, it’s all about MPN, specifically myelofibrosis. Two incredible docs are lending their insights so you can take your questions to your own doctors.

Dr. Serge Verstovsek with MD Anderson, founder and director of the largest MPN clinical research center in the world, and Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju, also with MD Anderson, who is the director of its rare disease program and executive director of the Cancer Network.

We’re having this discussion coming out of the biggest meeting of the top blood cancer and MPN specialists in the world. Our goal is to highlight what’s likely to be most impactful for those of us dealing with myelofibrosis, for both patients and caregivers.

We have some promising data on a therapy that could potentially not just address myelofibrosis symptoms but eliminate the disease for some of us. That’s very early, but it’s exciting as it was picked to be one of just a handful of highlighted sessions out of thousands at this conference that just wrapped up.

First, let’s set the stage. Most myelofibrosis patients and care partners go to a community care center. That’s, of course, where I started 20 years [ago] Even if a lot of what we’re going to talk about today is still potential or in clinical studies, what are the questions patients and caregivers should be asking?

The importance of being your own advocate

Dr. Serge Verstovsek: Thank you very much for having me. It’s a pleasure to share my excitement with you.

First, a little proactive approach is always good to learn about the condition and the disease and see how the treating doctor is about providing the answers. It’s a team effort. Nobody knows everything. Be mindful of that.

Then, if necessary, go for a second opinion [with an] MPN specialist because ideally, there would be a team — a local doctor, the MPN specialist, and the patient — who decides what to do at what time. The patient is actually in charge. We are only suggesting.

Be an advocate for yourself because it’s a lifelong condition, which has [the] potential to shorten [your] life. Engage and don’t be mad or sad. There is a lot to do together with the local doctor [and] with the MPN specialist. 

Ask questions. If there are no answers, seek the answer. Be one of the contributors altogether to improve your own condition.

Be an active participant. As I always say, who is the decision maker? It’s the patient. The educated patient, engaged patient is the best patient.

Cutting-edge treatments and therapies

Ruth: Great tips, Dr. Verstovsek. You’ve been leading the way in MPN research for decades, as many of us know, and it seems there have been so many developments in terms of cutting-edge treatments and new therapies for myelofibrosis. What should patients and their partners know about that?

Dr. Verstovsek: You’re right, there is a lot going on in the MPN field. I like to divide this [between] excitement about what’s coming soon and what’s coming maybe not soon enough. 

Back in 2004, when I really engaged in MPN, there was no standard of care and there was no study or studies. We were trying to seek friendly people in different companies where we would perhaps use the drugs that are already on the market for something else, like thalidomide or lenalidomide.

People probably resonate well with these drugs. We try them and other colleagues in the field try them in myelofibrosis. They do help but not too much and not too often. Then the discovery of the abnormalities — JAK2 and others — led to [a] real interest in developing more specific drugs for myelofibrosis. 

Where we are now, it’s like night and day. Now, there are three approved drugs for myelofibrosis. This fourth one, momelotinib, may be [approved] next summer. So four and numerous phase 3 studies. Numerous studies in general so that you have options. We just seek more patient participation.

Ruth: Thank you, Dr. Vertsovsek. Let’s dive into what many of us know more about — JAK inhibitors. We have 3 FDA-approved ones now:

  • Ruxolitinib (Jakafi)
  • Fedratinib (Inrebic)
  • Pacritinib (Vonjo)

There was an update on pacritinib for myelofibrosis patients. Can you share more?

Dr. Verstovsek: [Pacritinib] is a JAK inhibitor that decreases the spleen [and] improves the quality of life. 

It was approved in February 2022 for patients with low platelets, which is below 50, because it does not suppress the blood cell count like ruxolitinib or fedratinib, the other JAK inhibitors that have already been on the market for quite some time. The novelty is that it can improve anemia in some patients and that appears to be added value to it.  

I actually tell my patients I treat with pacritinib — and these are the ones with the lower platelets — [and] that it’s not going to suppress your blood cell count. It may actually improve the anemia and it is good for the spleen and symptoms. 

There is added value now that we know of, with [a] very [good] description of that value at ASH 2022. That’s on the recently approved drug. 

Much enthusiasm is about a JAK inhibitor called momelotinib, which will be likely approved by summer 2023 because the application was submitted and it’s under review by the FDA. 

This particular drug is different. It’s a pill like all the other JAK inhibitors. It may improve the symptoms and the spleen like all the other JAK inhibitors, but the real value is that anemia benefit. That is the primary reason why you would use momelotinib. 

In a phase 3 randomized study that was done during COVID, it was proven to be very valuable for patients after initial ruxolitinib for control of the anemia, improving the anemia, improving the symptoms, and improving the spleen. 

We expect that momelotinib, which is also very safe, will be one of the major new drugs particularly in the second-line setting once people fail ruxolitinib. All of these came from the ASH 2022 analysis. And it’s durable.

We will then have choices. We would have pacritinib for people with very low platelets or momelotinib for patients with anemia. We would optimize our care of patients for a longer period of time because we have been limited in what we could do once ruxolitinib fails.

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju: I hope — and I know all my colleagues do, too — that we have dozens of these drugs to offer to different patients. Hopefully, one day we have a biological, molecular approach to selecting them as well. 

Combination therapy to treat myelofibrosis

Ruth: Dr. Pemmaraju, let’s move to another big headline — combination therapy as a focus in treating myelofibrosis patients.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Combination therapy not only in the relapsed/refractory setting but we’re also investigating it now in the front-line setting. We have to keep in mind: how is the patient tolerating? Are there too many side effects? What is the actual benefit of adding the second agent compared to the JAK inhibitor alone?

Ruth: This always goes back to not all patients are alike. There isn’t a cookie-cutter approach. One thing I always say about MPNs and myelofibrosis is the only predictable thing is that they’re not predictable.

Dr. Pemmaraju: We always talk about personalized, individualized, targeted therapy. This is the era that we’re in now. Each patient may have a different comorbidity profile — other diseases and diagnoses that they carry outside of the myelofibrosis. 

[They have] different ways they metabolize drugs [and] different molecular mutations in their myelofibrosis. We’re in a whole new era of trying to select either clinical trial drugs or, hopefully, one day, even standard-of-care drugs.

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju

Ruth: Thank you, Dr. Pemmaraju. Let’s talk about some of these combinations. One update has been on a BCL inhibitor, navitoclax, in combination with a JAK inhibitor. Where would that come in?

Dr. Pemmaraju: This is excellent. We all work on these clinical trials together. I think the navitoclax agent, BC-LXL, is important. It’s not yet FDA-approved for anything.

What it’s showing is that in myelofibrosis in particular, either as a single agent or in combination with [a] JAK inhibitor, it has possible disease-modifying effects. 

We showed very good overall survival in suboptimal patients who are already on a JAK inhibitor and added the navitoclax. Some variant allele fraction reduction, some bone marrow fibrosis improvement.

The navitoclax agent is now in phase 3 randomized global study: ruxolitinib plus navitoclax versus ruxolitinib alone essentially. We hope to have those results in [2023] so that we know if the combination approach is beneficial to our patients in the front-line, untreated setting.

Ruth: I want to talk about another phase 3 trial, a drug close to my heart: pelabresib. That’s the trial that I’ve been on for three years and that’s used again with a JAK inhibitor. I understand the results have been very promising. In fact, my doctor calls me a poster child for this clinical study.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Yeah, exactly right. In this class of combinations, we mentioned the BC-LXL strategy and navitoclax. You also have this bromodomain or BET inhibition with pelabresib.

Very encouraging results there as well, which again started out in the single-agent, relapsed/refractory setting and then was added on to the ruxolitinib and now is being investigated in patients. Again, [the] same thing: phase 3 randomized study, front-line. 

For you and I that have been in the field for longer than a decade, what this marks is for the first time, we’re moving combinations into the front-line setting. That means a patient who’s newly diagnosed with myelofibrosis is then put forward with two drugs instead of one. That’s the big deal here and we’re starting to hear those results.

What should patients consider when seeking treatment?

Ruth: This is really exciting because we’re talking about options here. But if you were to say anything more as a specialist, a super specialist in myelofibrosis and other MPNs, you are seeing a patient and you’re making decisions on which way to go with therapy. What other considerations are there since you have so many options now, thankfully?

Dr. Verstovsek: There is no real reason to switch right away. If one thing doesn’t work, maybe you can optimize it. What does this mean? This means that you can combine things together.

There are a number of medications that are not JAK inhibitors that are improving the red blood cell count, the spleen, or symptoms in myelofibrosis patients [and] that can be combined. [They are] being tested in advanced clinical studies to help the patients right from day one. Day one [means] the patient needs the therapy [and is] newly diagnosed. 

Why don’t we use two drugs together instead of one? There are medications like pelabresib, parsaclisib, navitoclax, or luspatercept. Basically, giving four is to enhance what the JAK inhibitors do. More of the spleen [and] symptoms control and perhaps much more durable.

Luspatercept is for anemia control while you are treating with a JAK inhibitor or ruxolitinib. One aspect of drug development [is] starting with the best combination from day one. If you start with ruxolitinib alone, you add in suboptimal responders, [which are] people who benefit but not optimally.

You add another agent later. That’s like parsaclisib, another daily pill that was proven in a presentation in ASH to be very valuable in people who are already on JAK inhibitors [and] doing okay, but there is room for improvement. You add parsaclisib on top of it, another pill, and you enhance the spleen or symptom control. 

We [don’t] necessarily need to go from one drug to another drug to another drug, which is the common path, and it’s always there to do. Maybe we need to talk about combinations in specific clinical situations. We are developing multiple different combinations for different clinical scenarios. 

One will be better than the other or applicable more in one patient than the other. If that doesn’t work, you go to another drug and then maybe another combination. Maybe within the next three to five years, we’ll have a number of choices not just as a single agent but the combinations.

Deciding which combination to try first

Ruth: How do you decide which combination first? I know there was data also presented [about] ruxolitinib with different agents, including novel agents such as selinexor, [which was] first approved in multiple myeloma. Now it’s being used in myelofibrosis treatment research. Can you shed some light on this?

Dr. Verstovsek: We have been studying several combinations already. I mentioned those medications, but there are newcomers, which may be better. Difficult to say from the beginning, but selinexor is another drug that is approved for multiple myeloma that may be active in myelofibrosis. It seems so from the preliminary results. 

Interestingly, there was also a presentation by Dr. Kiladjian from France on adding interferon to ruxolitinib, which also enhanced the ability of ruxolitinib to do the job on the spleen and symptoms. There were some intriguing results on molecular improvements as well.

Perhaps it’s not only about combinations with a completely new, unproven yet, or completely investigational drug. Sometimes you may just look back in time and say, “Is there something there that I can use that is already established as [an] agent or a drug interferon?”

We are having a larger umbrella here without limitations in our attempts to optimize the care for our patients. It’s pretty exciting. You can have selinexor as an example. We think that’s approved for something else so much different than myeloma. You try it in a completely out-of-common-sense approach, like myelofibrosis, and it does work. We’ll follow that particular clinical study of that combination very carefully as well.

Dr. Pemmaraju: There’s this new era of novel drugs. They either come straight out of the lab or they’re borrowed from some of the other blood cancers. Selinexor is a novel one. It’s actually already US FDA-approved, for example, in multiple myeloma, but sometimes, the doses are higher or lower [or] mechanisms of action combinations. 

Again, that combination, that new drug is following the same pattern we’ve seen, which is single-agent activity for relapsed/refractory and then now moving into the front line in combination with ruxolitinib, a JAK inhibitor.

Kinase inhibitors

Ruth: One other area of inhibition, if you will. You mentioned these different kinds of inhibitors. Along the way, you mentioned kinase inhibition. That’s something that could be coming over the horizon.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Yes, exactly. The third category outside of these two is what’s called PI3 kinase inhibition. Kinase, the word itself when it’s used, really means messenger or pathway in some of these cancer cells. 

We didn’t have these clinical trials five [or] seven years ago. What we’re starting to do now is pick out individual pathways in the cancer myelofibrosis cell outside of JAK-STAT.

[We’re] trying to pick pathways that may complement JAK-STAT so that you can get a dual or combined approach. That’s what a lot of these phase 2 and phase 3 trials are doing and even more novel agents than these first three that we’re talking about.

Treatment, health, and transplants

Ruth: One important point here is the thought [that] transplants can be very intimidating for a lot of people. Do you feel that some of these newer therapies or combinations will help alleviate the need to go there?

Dr. Verstovsek: I think, at the moment, it’s the other way around. We are trying to improve the condition of the patients and make them physically better, metabolism to improve, inflammation to be controlled well, and get the patients to transplant in the best possible shape.

At the moment, transplant is still the only procedure that can eliminate disease and cure patients. There are limitations on the medications. We are trying hard to extend the benefit of pills, but they have limitations. Nothing really works forever. 

I hope that there are actually more patients going through the transplant as we improve their condition and then the transplant success is even higher when you get the “healthier” patients. 

Unless we develop the drugs, something that would potentially eliminate disease antibody in calreticulin-mutated patients. This is in the future; it’s not even in the studies yet [of anything that] has that potential. At the moment, we encourage people to go through the transplant when they are in the best possible shape on a JAK inhibitor.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Allogeneic stem cell transplant remains the only curative modality for our patients with myelofibrosis. It’s tough to say that because it’s such a difficult procedure for many of our patients. Many of our patients are older [or have] comorbidities. 

Across the world, as I meet with patients and doctors, they don’t have access [to] or follow-up for it. That’s tough. That’s the hope and optimism that I personally have: can we offer these combinations or other novel agents to try to cure the disease outside of stem cell treatment?

Unfortunately, I would say stem cell transplant is the only curative option, but again, unfortunately, it’s not available to the vast majority of our patients.

Ruth: Speaking of cure, that is the big splash that just came out of this ASH meeting. Dr. Verstovsek, what was all that buzz about?

Dr. Verstovsek: It has to do with the development of a possible new therapy. The key word is “possible” because the presentation was on preclinical testing. [It’s a] possible new therapy for a third of the patients with myelofibrosis or ET (essential thrombocythemia) that have a specific mutation: calreticulin mutation. 

Everybody probably knows about the JAK2 mutation, but there are a couple of other mutations that are important that are mutually exclusive. You have JAK2 mutation, calreticulin mutation, [and] MPL mutation. These are mutually exclusive and present in about 90% of the patients with myelofibrosis and 90% of patients with ET (essential thrombocytopenia). 

What they do is activate inside the bone marrow cell this pathway that we call a cascade of protein. My patients call it a highway. It jacks that highway. It’s always active because of these driver mutations. That makes your cells grow and causes inflammation.

Because this mutated protein is on the surface of the cells, we can identify malignant cells. This is a marker of [a] malignant cell. Now, the presentation was on [the] development of [an] antibody. Another construct would be attaching specifically to the cell with the mutated calreticulin and basically [letting] it die off over time, so elimination of the disease.

This is a potential of such a therapy, [an] antibody for mutated calreticulin, which will be given to patients with myelofibrosis or ET that have calreticulin mutation by genetic testing. It’s easy to do and that’s the potential of inhibiting the growth of malignant cells specifically. Elimination of the malignant ones is what everybody is talking about. 

We hope that in the near future, perhaps [in] 2023, we’ll have a study of it with the antibody for patients with calreticulin mutation. Extremely exciting because we usually talk about improvement in the bone marrow function — anemia needs to improve, decrease in symptoms, or smaller spleen. This has a potential [for] what we call molecular response — decreasing the number or eliminating potentially the malignant cells.

Ruth: That is exciting! To be clear, this calreticulin-targeting therapy is not in [a] clinical trial yet, so the hope would be for it to enter a phase 1, first in humans, study hopefully this year.

Speaking of clinical trials, I’m a part of one now. You’re trying to get more people to know about and ultimately participate in clinical trials, too?

Dr. Verstovsek: Participation in the study would be the ultimate goal in my view from the patient’s perspective. You get the standard, but you get something extra on top to make it even better. Why not?

From your own perspective and from the perspective of benefit to the community of MPN patients, why not seek participation in a clinical study if it’s not mentioned already by the treating doctor?

Importance of being an educated patient

Ruth: That’s exciting because it helps people understand the importance of where all cancer therapies are hopefully heading into with understanding more data about the person. In this case, the mutation. 

What is your message to patients and their care partners [or] caregivers about the importance of making sure they understand or [are] asking questions of their doctors about mutations?

Dr. Verstovsek: The best patient is [an] educated patient. In our own practice, we try to provide the patients [with] everything we know about their condition unless the patient says, “No, no, no, you are the doctor. Don’t tell me anything,” which is not very common. 

We have a very enthusiastic group of patients that would like to know everything and be part of decision-making and planning, which is the optimal care in my view. We embrace everybody and we want everybody to participate and understand. 

The disease is there for some reason. We cannot really say, “This is why it happened,” but we can describe it very well by molecular testing, the testing of chromosomes, the testing for fibrosis grade in the bone marrow, and as you measure the spleen and the red blood cells.

You want to know everything you can. Sometimes, that information is useful for therapeutic decision-making; sometimes, it’s not. Patient education and understanding of what it is, what can we do about it, and how is very important. 

Calreticulin mutation in the future — some reservations here — can potentially really make a difference for these patients. We’ll see.

Conclusion 

Ruth: It seems that two things are going on. One is medical science is moving forward. Personalized medicine is the name of the game and patients need to have an active dialogue with their doctor as to where they are now with their myelofibrosis and what applies, either in a trial or with an approved or newly approved medicine, right?

Dr. Pemmaraju: You could not have said that better. I really want to emphasize what you said because we are now beyond the point where we only had one treatment option or one standard-of-care option. That’s awesome.

Dr. Verstovsek: I always try to emphasize to our colleagues in the field and the patients themselves who are savvy and go online that there is so much going on. Get engaged. Standard care came to become [the] standard of care from research. It didn’t just appear. 

The combination [and] new drugs that are in development, potentially better than the standard of care, are subject to research. That’s how you do it. We are here to team up with the companies, with the regulators, and with the patients all together for [the] betterment of therapy for myelofibrosis. Be alert. A lot is going on. Be a participant.

Ruth: Thank you both, Dr. Verstovsek and Dr. Pemmaraju, for joining us in this conversation to help us, myelofibrosis patients and care partners.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Thank you so much and thanks for having me.

Dr. Verstovsek: My pleasure. I hope it was useful to everybody. I’m here to help.

Ruth: Thank you to the patients and loved ones who are so engaged in understanding more. There is a lot to be hopeful for.


Karyopharm Therapeutics logo

Special thanks again to Karyopharm Therapeutics for its support of our independent patient education content. The Patient Story retains full editorial control.


Myelofibrosis Patient Stories

Stacy S.

Stacy S.



Diagnosis: Myelofibrosis with CALR and ASXL1 mutations
Symptoms: Fatique, cold hands and feet
Treatment: Agrylin (for thrombocythemia), Ruxolitinib (Jakafi), Fedratinib (INREBIC), stem cell transplant
Ruth R. Diagnosis: Myeloproliferative Neoplasms (MPN) Treatment: Chemotherapy, Bone marrow biopsy, clinical trial
Natalia's Myelofibrosis Story
Natalia A. Diagnosis: Myelofibrosis Symptoms: Anemia, fatigue, weakness, shortness of breath Treatment: Phlebotomies, iron pills, blood transfusion

Mary L.



Diagnosis: Myelofibrosis (MPN)
1st Symptoms: Fatigue, extreme dizziness (later diagnosed as vertigo)
Treatment: Pegasys, hydroxyurea (current)
Kristin D.

Kristin D.



Symptoms: None; caught at routine blood work
Treatment: Stem cell transplant
Joseph C. feature profile

Joseph C.



Symptoms: None; caught at routine blood work
Treatment: Clinical trial: VONJO (pacritinib)

Jeremy S.



Diagnosis: Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN), Polycythemia vera (PV) and Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia (CLL)

Doug A. feature profile

Doug A.



Symptoms: Fatigue
Treatment: ruxolitinib, selinexor (clinical trial)
Cathy T. feature profile

Cathy T.



Diagnosis: Myelofibrosis

Symptoms: None; caught at a routine blood test
Treatment: Stem cell transplant
Andrew SchorrDiagnosis: Myelofibrosis, Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia (CLL)Treatment: Clinical trial, Gazyva, Jakafi, Increbic, Reblozyl and steroids

Categories
Medical Experts Medical Update Article Myeloma

Relapsed/Refractory Multiple Myeloma Highlights from ASH 2022

Relapsed/Refractory Multiple Myeloma Highlights from ASH 2022

The Role of Bispecifics in the Treatment of Relapsed/Refractory Multiple Myeloma

Patient advocate Jack Aiello is a 28-year survivor of multiple myeloma. When he was diagnosed, he was told he would only have two to three years to live and only two treatment options were available.

Jack underwent two transplants and then went onto a clinical trial for thalidomide but nothing worked until a third transplant.

In this conversation, he speaks with Dr. Ajai Chari, the Director of Clinical Research at the Multiple Myeloma Program at Mount Sinai in New York and Dr. Sandy Wong, a blood disease specialist at University of California, San Francisco, with a special interest in multiple myeloma.

They discuss game-changing treatments for relapsed/refractory patients, bispecific antibodies, treatment side effects, and emerging clinical trials.


Thank you to Janssen Oncology & AbbVie for their support of our patient education program! The Patient Story retains full editorial control over all content.

This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.



For today’s newly diagnosed patient, you can be more optimistic about your diagnosis than [at] any time in history. We don’t have a cure [but] we have treatments available to manage this disease.

Jack Aiello

Introduction

Jack Aiello: I’m a 28-year survivor of multiple myeloma. When I was diagnosed in 1995, the doctor told me I had two to three years to live and [that] there were only two treatment options available. I remember going home to my wife, [telling] her the little bit I understood about this disease, and, suffice it to say, we shared a good cry. 

I had kids who were 16, 14, and 10 years old at the time. I knew I was going to have to go to the hospital so I just told them that there was something wrong with my blood and I was going to have to have it treated. But I wondered, would I be seeing the kids graduate from high school? Who was going to teach my son to hit a curveball in Little League? Who was going to pay for them [to go] to college? It was a difficult time.

Since then, we’ve had 13 or 14 new drugs approved by the FDA, more combinations of these drugs, and even more are in clinical trials today.

I really believe that for today’s newly diagnosed patient, you can be more optimistic about your diagnosis than [at] any time in history. We don’t have a cure [but] we have treatments available to manage this disease.

For relapse/refractory patients, you’ll hear some great results from the recent ASH meeting. Many abstract presentations were on the topic of drugs and a category of drugs called bispecific antibodies.

To help us understand more are Drs. Ajai Chari and Dr. Sandy Wong. 

Jack Aiello

Dr. Ajai Chari is the Director of Clinical Research at the Multiple Myeloma Program at Mount Sinai in New York.

Dr. Sandy Wong is a blood disease specialist at [the] University of California San Francisco, with a special interest in multiple myeloma.

Let’s kick off the conversation with what was the big buzz this year: bispecific antibodies. We’ve heard of monoclonal antibodies like daratumumab. Most recently, the FDA approved a bispecific antibody called teclistamab or Tecvayli. What exactly is a bispecific?

Dr. Ajai Chari

Bispecific antibodies

Dr. Ajai Chari: It’s a really exciting time. I’ll start with one of my favorite stories about the development of immunologic treatments in all humans. In [the] 1980s, the Nobel Prize was actually given for creating a standard antibody that was taken by fusing a myeloma cell with a spleen cell.

Every human antibody that we use — whether it’s for COVID, autoimmune diseases, [or] cancers — owes its legacy to myeloma. The first naked antibody, which is this Y-shaped structure, was not approved [for] myeloma until about 30 years after that Nobel Prize was given even though antibodies were helping everybody else. 

The first naked antibodies were daratumumab and elotuzumab. The ends of the Y-shape bind to one target and typically that’s the myeloma cell or whatever cancer cell.

It’s either a handcuff or double-sided tape. Basically, what it does is it takes one side of the Y, binds to a T-cell through a target known as CD3, and the other side can bind to a myeloma cell. You can change that up based on the protein.

The one that’s commercially available now that’s called teclistamab binds CD3 and the T-cells to BCMA or B-cell maturation antigen.

It’s remarkable how well these agents are working.

Dr. Ajai Chari

Jack: So the difference between that and a monoclonal antibody is the monoclonal antibody doesn’t have that second arm connecting to the T cell, is that correct?

Dr. Sandy Wong: That’s correct. Monoclonal antibodies activate the immune system in a different way.

For example, drugs like daratumumab or isatuximab activate the immune system [in] several ways. One is they act almost like Post-It Notes, if you will, where they flag cells [that] are not supposed to be there, i.e. the myeloma cells, and that leaves the immune system to know, “Hey, this is not supposed to be there. Let’s get rid of this myeloma cell.” That’s how a monoclonal antibody works.

Bispecific T-cell engagers physically attach to T cells and bring the T cells in physical proximity with the myeloma cells. The T cells get rid of myeloma cells that [are] not supposed to be there so they secrete their toxins, etc., and get rid of the myeloma cells. They work very differently.

Dr. Chari: It’s remarkable how well these agents are working. Basically, it’s an off-the-shelf product so that’s important.

A lot of people may have heard about CAR Ts that also target BCMA, but the difference is this is ready to go. It doesn’t have to be manufactured for each patient.

You don’t need to go through the T cell collection, manufacturing, and waiting. This is an off-the-shelf product. That’s the same for every patient with myeloma. 

What the drugs do is basically traffic the T cells in our bodies to whatever you’re trying to bring them to. In this case, the T cells in a patient are preexisting or trafficked to wherever the myeloma is, and when the T-cells are brought right up against the cancer, they recognize the cancer. 

They release certain chemicals or cytokines that poke holes in the cancer cell and that lead to cell death. I say it’s like bringing your army straight to the enemy, as opposed to hoping and praying that they find the right place to go.

It’s a mind-changing, game-changing era that we’re in with this immunotherapy treatment.

Dr. Chari

Treatment for relapsed/refractory patients

Jack: The teclistamab that was just approved and the other bispecifics, just to let the [readers] know, are so far for relapsed/refractory patients. Those [are] patients who have gone through several lines of previous treatments before getting to these bispecifics. Is that right?

Dr. Chari: Yeah, that’s exactly right. Just to put this whole space into context, about five [or] six years ago, the way drugs get approved is that they’re first tested in heavily treated patients — as you mentioned, relapsed/refractory myeloma.

The benchmark to get a new drug approved was about [a] 20-30% response rate, lasting about three to four months. Those numbers sound modest, but we have to keep in mind those are in patients who had exhausted all available therapies. 

When I started in myeloma 17 years ago, thalidomide was just coming on the scene. At that point, [to treat] relapsed/refractory, you had thalidomide and maybe a transplant. Now, typically, we’re talking about the big five drugs:

  • lenalidomide (Revlimid)
  • pomalidomide (Pomalyst)
  • bortezomib (Velcade)
  • carfilzomib (Kyprolis) 
  • CD38 antibodies, such as daratumumab or isatuximab

That is a very different patient than somebody who just had had thalidomide. As we keep approving drugs, this unmet need, which is patients who have exhausted their currently available therapies, keeps changing. 

In spite of that, what’s remarkable about the entire T cell redirection, whether it’s bispecific or CAR T, is we’re saying 70-100% [response rate] is the new 20-30%. That’s how many patients are responding to these drugs. Even though these are much, much sicker patients and have had more treatments [and] more drugs, we’re getting better responses. 

That’s what’s really exciting. I literally have patients [with] whom we had discussed hospice a few years ago and now they’re in their deepest, longest remission they’ve had in years. It’s a mind-changing, game-changing era that we’re in with this immunotherapy treatment.

How is talquetamab is different from other bispecifics?

Jack: For one who’s been watching new treatments being developed and now seeing [a] 60% or 70% response rate, it’s pretty incredible.

Dr. Chari, you presented a different bispecific called talquetamab, also from Janssen, the same manufacturer of teclistamab. Can you share the results of this trial and what might make talquetamab different from other bispecifics?

Dr. Chari: First of all, this work takes [a] tremendous team, starting with the patients and their caregivers and then the entire study team, Janssen, the pharmaceutical, the FDA, and other regulatory agencies. 

With the phase 1 portion of the study, we’re looking to just find the safety and what’s the right dose and schedule. The phase 1 study just got published in [the] New England Journal so that was very exciting. It was also a large phase 1 study with over 200 patients. 

Efficacy and safety (how well it works in the safety profile) were then validated in this phase 2 study and that’s what we presented at ASH [2022]. The phase 2 study had 3 major cohorts of patients:

  • One got a dose of what we call 0.4 mg per kg subcutaneously every week
  • A second cohort got 0.8 mg per kg every two weeks 
  • The third cohort could have gotten either one of those doses, but [in] a very important subgroup of patients who already had prior T cell redirection therapy, meaning patients who had had other CAR Ts and bispecifics

Even though these are 60-100% response rates, we’re still seeing relapses so you still need new agents. The goal of this study was to really look at these three subgroups. I would start with who these patients were. These were patients with heavily-treated disease.

About 60% were high-risk in some way, which is a very high number. That could be defined either by what we call high-risk genetics, so cytogenetics and FISH; high risk because they had myeloma coming out of the marrow, what we call extramedullary disease; or high risk because they had so-called ISS stage 3 disease at the time of study entry. 

In this population, with the typical five to six lines of therapy over six to seven years where almost 95% of patients were refractory to daratumumab, 75% were what we call triple-class refractory (proteasome inhibitor, IMiD, and CD38) and 95% of patients were progressing on their last therapy.

In this heavily, heavily treated group, as a single agent drug, we saw [a] 73-74% response rate in both of those schedules that we mentioned. That response rate was maintained in high-risk patients, ISS 3 patients, and patients regardless of lines of therapy, regardless of the number of drugs they were refractory [to]. 

One group who had [a] slightly lower response rate was those with extramedullary disease and even those had a 50% response rate, which I think is outstanding. I think safety is also equally important and distinguishes this from some of the other drugs.

What makes alnuctamab different from other bispecifics?

Jack: Dr. Wong, you presented on a bispecific called alnuctamab from Bristol Myers Squibb. Can you share the results of this trial and what might make alnuctamab different from other bispecifics?

Dr. Sandy Wong

Dr. Wong: We presented both the updated follow-up on the intravenous alnuctamab cohort as well as the subcutaneous alnuctamab cohort. The intravenous cohort was actually presented initially in ASH 2019 so there’s been quite some time that’s elapsed.

Basically, the take-home message with the IV alnuctamab was that even though the response rates initially looked exciting, when we got to target doses of 10 mg, there was a lot of high-grade cytokine release syndrome. People got really sick from CRS and one person actually died from it so it was not really optimal in terms of the side effects. Obviously, we don’t want people to get sick from these treatments.

Patients that were on the intravenous alnuctamab responded for a really long time so we’re really, really excited about that. However, we had to pivot to the subcutaneous alnuctamab because of those safety concerns. With the subcutaneous alnuctamab, the overall response rate was at 65%, which is very much in line with other T-cell engagers.

In terms of safety, all the CRS events were very low-grade. They were short-lived. They’re what we call grades 1 to 2 and, in terms of safety profile, it was a lot more manageable compared to intravenous alnuctamab.

That was what was really exciting about our presentation. Not only is subcutaneous obviously more convenient for patients, but the CRS events were much easier to handle and the overall response rate was 65%.

How does this stand out from the other T cell engagers? Several things. This is not the only subcutaneous BCMA-directed T cell engager, but there are some that are intravenous. For example, ABBV-383 is intravenous. So this is great that this is subcutaneous.

It’s hard to compare apples to oranges because all these different BCMA-directed T cell engagers have different follow-up time frames. For this one, the follow-up was very, very short. The median [was] only around four months.

In terms of infectious events, in terms of opportunistic infections, we really haven’t seen much of that for this particular drug so maybe that eventually will pan out longer follow-up studies but unclear because follow-up is pretty short.

What is really exciting is that the MRD negativity was 80% despite these patients [not being] followed for that long. That is actually really exciting. We don’t have a signal for these high-grade infections or opportunistic infections though. Again, follow-up is pretty short with this drug.

What are common side effects for bispecifics?

Jack: Speaking of infections, what are the common side effects we’re seeing with bispecifics altogether? I understand some research is unearthing data about how myeloma patients on certain drugs do with COVID and the vaccine.

Dr. Chari: I’ll start with what’s the most severe toxicity and then we’ll go to what’s common because I think they’re different and they’re both equally important to address. From a patient perspective, if it’s severe but rare, you may not be as concerned, but if it’s common and frequent, that’s different. 

The most severe side effect is low blood counts. We see that in about a third of patients with this drug. Typically, it happens in the first few cycles.

My personal hypothesis, I think what’s happening is when the army is going to the marrow where a lot of myeloma lives, you kill the myeloma but you may temporarily also affect the rest of the marrow. Then once the myeloma clears, you see that [improvement].

Jack: Patients may hear that called cytopenia. Is that correct?

Dr. Chari: Correct. That’s exactly right. It could be the white cells, the red cells, or the platelets. Those are important. This is already a little bit less than some of the other drugs, which can have as high as 60%. This is about half of that. 

The second huge thing, which you alluded to and it’s very important, is the infection. I can tell you, being in New York City [during] the pandemic, this was really a difficult situation. We had patients on experimental therapies and we were facing these life-threatening COVID decisions every day. We didn’t know what to do with this setting.

I think the infection profile of talquetamab is very unique. I’ll give you three ways why I think it differs from some of the other products.

First, the rate of severe infections was about 10-15%. We want it to be zero, but to put that into context, some of the other drugs are 45%.

We’re not just talking [about] minor infections, which can be seen with any myeloma patient because of the nature of the disease. [These are] severe, life-threatening infections, what we call grade 3-4. That was relatively modest. 

Second, the COVID signal is very different with this agent. Talquetamab as well as a lot of the other bispecifics are all accruing during the era of COVID. Yet in the phase 1 study that was published in [the] New England Journal with about 250 patients, there were zero COVID-related deaths.

In this study, there were two COVID-related deaths despite 10% of the patients having COVID. That’s a unique signal. In fact, in our laboratory at Mount Sinai, when we’ve tested people getting talquetamab [and] their response to the COVID vaccine, they do very well. They’re able to generate antibodies, which we don’t see with some of the other bispecifics because of the nature, I believe, of the target.

The third and final difference between this drug and some of the other bispecifics is the need for infection-prevention treatments. Is there anything we can do to reduce infection? There is IVIG, which is intravenous immunoglobulin, that’s an intravenous infusion given once a month to boost IgG levels. Here, only about 10% of patients needed IVIG.

All of those features of this drug are very unique. Some of the other products are having as high [a] rate [as] 40% of patients needing IVIG. I think this bodes well because these are probably the two most important features, which [are] cytopenia, blood count, and infections in terms of how these drugs are used in the future.

The ability to combine drugs depends on each agent’s side effect profile. Because infections and blood count issues are quite common, that can make some of these bispecifics difficult to combine. I think, in contrast, that bodes well for talquetamab.

There are some issues with talquetamab that are common but typically low-grade. One you’ve alluded to is cytokine release.

I would say as a class, all the bispecifics have cytokine release syndrome on the order of 70% or so, typically low-grade. In contrast, some of the CAR Ts have a little bit higher, more severe cytokine release.

What is cytokine release? It’s when the army recognizes the cancer. The T cells release their chemicals and those chemicals can cause symptoms such as fever, low blood pressure, low oxygen, confusion, lethargy, seizures, and even death, in rare cases. With bispecifics, it’s generally very low-grade. Most of the patients are getting a fever.

Everybody eventually would love to be able to use these drugs [in] an outpatient setting… If we’re able to do this safely as an outpatient, that would be really a big game changer for patients and their quality of [life].

Dr. Sandy Wong

Lowering cytokine release syndrome with treatments

Jack: There’s a big focus on lowering cytokine release syndrome with treatments like bispecifics. In particular, I saw one trial which looked at trying to reduce CRS by giving tocilizumab ahead of time. I’ve seen things like step-up dosing to reduce side effects. I know doctors have asked for possible pre-treatments for reducing infections. Can you share more about this?

Dr. Wong: Everybody eventually would love to be able to use these drugs [in] an outpatient setting. Nobody wants to be admitted to the hospital for a week just to get started on these drugs. If we’re able to do this safely as an outpatient, that would be really a big game changer for patients and their quality of [life].

Dr. Chari: We have to keep in mind one of the very things that’s going to make bispecifics different than CAR T.

CAR Ts are done at transplant centers and specialized large academic centers. These are off-the-shelf products that we hope eventually can get to the community because we recognize that most myeloma patients are not being treated in the global setting and academic centers. They’re being treated by community doctors.

If we want to get these drugs out to the community, we have to make them as safe as possible. How do we reduce that 70% cytokine release? One is by giving tocilizumab. In one of the studies with a bispecific known as cevostamab, [the] rate of cytokine release dropped from 70-80% to about 30%. That’s very encouraging. 

The other way to do that, which you mentioned, is don’t throw the whole army at the disease at once. Gradually increase the doses so that if there is some chemical release, it’s not all at once. That creates a lot of drama. You start with a low dose and you gradually work your way up. 

Both strategies are being done. With talquetamab, we did do preventative tocilizumab, which is the anti-IL-6 antibody, which blocks the fever. We were allowed to give it when patients had cytokine release, but we didn’t give it preventatively, which is what was presented at ASH [2022] in that one study. 

The other side effects [of] this drug are three things. One could ask, “Why is this one different than other drugs in terms of why potentially the infection was better? Why were the blood count issues perhaps not as bad?” We think it has to do with the target.

The target is GPRC5D, which is basically a protein that is expressed on myeloma cells primarily. We think [it’s expressed] less so [in] normal plasma cells and even less so in the normal hematopoietic compartment, which is the precursor cells that give rise to our blood counts. 

Perhaps the specificity of this protein is what underlies the favorable blood count and cytopenia issues, as well as the infection profile. There are a few tissues that do express GPRC5D and, fortunately, it’s not the major organs. We didn’t see [the] heart, lung, liver, [and] kidney. Those organs were not affected. 

The main thing we did see is GPRCs expressed on heavily keratinized tissue. Keratin [is] in the skin, nails, hair, etc. We didn’t see a lot of hair loss, but we did see some rashes in the early part of the treatment, which [is] typically managed with either oral or topical steroids. 

We did see some nail changes and taste changes. We saw dryness, difficulty swallowing, [and] change of taste. That, I think, is the most difficult to manage. We’ve tried artificial saliva and other things.

In spite of everything, the one signal that you can look at to see the tolerability of a drug is how many people came off for non-progression. This was 5%, which means that we were able to manage the side effects to keep people on the drug. I still think we need to do better. 

We have to keep in mind that the side effect profile that a heavily treated population might accept is going to be different than the side effect profile of maybe somebody who’s only had one line of therapy. 

The good news is that we do think these side effects are responsive to modulating the dose and intensity, so either dropping the dose or skipping a dose, giving it less frequently. Those seem to help. I think that’s why the rate of discontinuation was relatively low. 

Again, a huge shout-out to the nurses because they’re really on the front lines and helping patients deal with these side effects. I never take my entire outstanding, talented nursing colleagues for granted. They’re really doing an amazing job. Those are basically, I think, the main side effects to cover with talquetamab as well as most bispecifics, I would say.

We have to keep in mind that the side effect profile that a heavily treated population might accept is going to be different than the side effect profile of maybe somebody who’s only had one line of therapy.

Dr. Chari

Managing side effects for bispecifics

Jack: Let’s summarize the side effect profiles for these bispecifics. I would stay on bispecifics typically until they stop working. I take them every two or three weeks, depending on how they’re dosed. Do these side effects change? Are they worse at the beginning? Whatever side effect I get at the beginning, [does it] continue as I’m taking the drug?

Dr. Chari: There [are] three major bispecific targets that are being explored. We’ve talked about GPRC5D with talquetamab. There’s actually a second company also pursuing that. That was also presented at ASH [2022] from Roche, targeting GPRC5D.

The BCMA is a very busy space. I think it’s like the statins of myeloma, like Crestor [and] Lipitor. It’s great for patients because more competition means more choice [and a] better cost profile. I think it’s great for the market.

I would say the BCMAs seem to keep having a rate of infection that we don’t see a plateau in. That’s what’s concerning to a lot of us. How do we find the right dose, schedule, and duration?

It’s one thing to have an infection in somebody whose myeloma is uncontrolled because that we’ve seen before. Myeloma patients whose myeloma is uncontrolled will get infections because that’s part of the cancer. 

What can be sometimes difficult to tease apart in these single-arm studies is you can’t isolate what’s coming from the patients (like if the patient is a very sick patient), what’s coming from the disease of the myeloma itself, and what’s coming from the treatment because you don’t have a control arm in which to compare it to. 

One of the things, as your question astutely asked, is there any change? With the infections, we’re not seeing that level off with the BCMA. With talquetamab, we’re not seeing it as much. 

I would say with the cevostamab, it’s probably somewhere in between. That’s targeting another protein called FcRH5. I would say [with] infections, we haven’t found the right magic sauce yet. Perhaps IVIG.

One other interesting paper that I think speaks to this topic is Genentech/Roche, the same company that did the prophylactic or preventative toci (tocilizumab) also happens to have the only bispecific that is a fixed duration. They don’t treat the progression. They treat for about a year.

What we saw is there’s a small number, but about 17 patients that had come off the therapy and were in longer follow-up on that study. What we know so far is of the patients that had a deep remission, they’ve been doing pretty well off therapy. Again, [that’s] amazing for patients to have a treatment-free interval. 

With talquetamab, we’re not seeing that relentless increase in infection — and to the opposite, the side effects [with] skin, nails, and taste actually seem to get better with time. There may not be as much of a need to do the fixed duration there. Maybe it’s once-a-month dosing or something. 

We’re pursuing all of these different strategies, but I would say that we’ve got to look at everything. We’ve got to look at the dose, the frequency, [and] the duration of treatment and figure [it] out for a given patient, based on a given target and on their response.

That cevostamab data, which [was] discontinued for those patients that were not in a complete response, did have [an] earlier relapse.

I think you can’t have a blanket statement. You just got to look at each patient as an individual. It’s nice to have these options that are giving such outstanding responses.

Bispecifics are here. It’s a dawn of a new era… We have multiple drugs against multiple targets that are showing impressive response rates.

Dr. Wong

Next steps for research

Jack: Thank you so much. I’ve learned a lot about bispecifics. I can also tell there’s still a lot of work to do to understand the dosing, to understand if there will be prophylactics that go along with them to minimize those side effects, to see if fixed duration or use till progression will be the right treatment, or just to reduce the dosing going forward.

I still go back to what you said earlier that we’re seeing response rates so high for just this drug, not even combined with something else, and for patients that have already gone through lots of prior treatment lines. It’s certainly an exciting field.

Dr. Chari: Not only are we seeing these responses, [but] the median time to response is one month and the median time to best response is two months. I mentioned those points because it gives us, as physicians, a lot more comfort in backing off on the dose and schedule.

You’re seeing the response early and it’s deep. If somebody has side effects, you’re not as worried about backing off. That’s what’s really nice about these drugs. Even if somebody does have side effects, it’s very gratifying to them to have this myeloma that was shooting off and suddenly it’s completely flattened out. That’s why I think the side effect profile we’ve got to do more work on. 

What are the next steps? All the phase 1 and phase 2 single-arm studies have confirmatory randomized studies where the drug’s being combined with different backbone agents.

Also, because of the unique side effect profile, talquetamab in particular is also being combined with all those standard myeloma drugs in single-arm studies as well as with the other bispecific, which is really cool. Completely chemo-free teclistamab with talquetamab is being studied. 

Lastly, we’re trying to also improve the T cell function because we think one of the reasons the drugs may peter out is because of T cell health. There [are] approaches using things like checkpoint inhibitors, which boost your T-cell function, in combination with these agents.

Bispecifics are going to be a fabulous treatment option for myeloma patients… I’m excited to see what comes next in myeloma.

Jack

Final takeaways

Jack: Doctors, as we wrap up this discussion on the latest in myeloma, specifically bispecifics, what are your thoughts on where we are in myeloma treatment and research? What’s your message to myeloma patients and families in 2023?

Dr. Wong: Bispecifics are here. It’s a dawn of a new era because finally, we have [an] off-the-shelf drug, which means that you can just take it right off the shelf and just give it to a patient. And for an off-the-shelf drug to have a response rate of 60 to 70%? That is absolutely amazing.

Previous to this, dara (daratumumab) was our darling drug. We use it so common nowadays in the front-line setting and the relapse setting. When dara was FDA-approved, the single-agent response rate in patients who are relapsed/refractory was only around 30%. Right now, we’re hitting 60 to 70% so this is extraordinary.

And it’s not just one drug. We have multiple drugs against multiple targets that are showing impressive response rates. I think really good news this ASH. I’m really excited to see all that amazing data being presented.

Dr. Chari: I think it’s a really exciting future. We’re just in the beginning and, of course, in less heavily treated patients, it’s also a big area of investigation in addition to combination. Stay tuned for all of those exciting new studies, hopefully soon.

Jack: Bispecifics are going to be a fabulous treatment option for myeloma patients. Thank you so much, Dr. Chari and Dr. Wong, for your presentations, [for] helping us better understand bispecifics, and [for] being part of this conversation.

I hope you took away something helpful and hopeful from this conversation. I’m excited to see what comes next in myeloma.


Special thanks again to Janssen Oncology & AbbVie for their support of our independent patient education content. The Patient Story retains full editorial control.


Relapsed/Refractory Multiple Myeloma Patient Stories

Theresa T. feature profile

Theresa T.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, relapsed/refractory

Subtype: IgG kappa Light Chain

Initial Symptom: Extreme pain in right hip

Treatment: Chemotherapy, CAR T-cell therapy, stem cell transplant, radiation
Laura E. feature profile

Laura E.



Symptom: Increasing back pain
Treatments: Chemotherapy, stem cell transplant, bispecific antibodies

Donna K.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, refractory
1st Symptoms: None, found by blood tests
Treatment: Total Therapy Four, carfilzomib + pomalidomide, daratumumab + lenalidomide, CAR T, selinexor-carfilzomib

Connie H.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, relapsed refractory
1st Symptoms: Chronic bone pain
Treatment: IV Chemotherapy, CAR T cell therapy

Elise D.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, refractory
1st Symptoms: Lower back pain, fractured sacrum
Treatment: CyBorD, Clinical trial of Xpovio (selinexor)+ Kyprolis (carfilzomib) + dexamethasone

Beth A.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, relapsed/refractory
Subtype: Non-secretory (1-5% of myelomas)
1st Symptoms: Extreme pain between shoulder blades, sternum, head, burning sensation
1st Line Treatment: VAD chemo, radiation, stem cell transplant
RR Treatment: 8 chemo regimens, successful combo→selinexor+bortezomib+dexamethasone
Scott

Scott C.



Diagnosis: Multiple myeloma, relapsed/refractorySubtype: IgG lambda (majorityof myelomas)
1st Symptoms: Pain in hips and ribs, night sweats, weight loss, nausea
Treatment:
Clinical trial, chemo, kyphoplasty, stem cell transplant

Categories
Cancers MPN Patient Stories Polycythemia Vera

Nick Napolitano’s Polycythemia Vera Story

Nick Napolitano’s Polycythemia Vera Story

Nick N. feature profile

Nick Napolitano almost didn’t get the physical that eventually led to his polycythemia vera (PV), diagnosis. He had always been relatively healthy but he decided to take the day off to get a work-sponsored annual physical. After the exam, some numbers were flagged in his blood work.

He knew something was off when the doctor wouldn’t share his results over the phone. After a biopsy at Weill Cornell Medicine, Nick’s diagnosis of PV, a subtype of myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN), was confirmed.

Polycythemia Vera (PV) is a rare, chronic blood disorder characterized by the overproduction of red blood cells in the bone marrow. Often white blood cells and platelets are overproduced as well. 

After some initial hesitation, Nick found that sharing his story was the jumping-off point he needed to feel comfortable sharing his cancer journey. He’s since starred in a documentary about PV to raise awareness for MPNs.

He shares the journey of his day-to-day life with polycythemia vera, the emotional and mental toll of his diagnosis, and the importance of seeking and seeing an MPN specialist.


This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.


  • Name: Nick N.
  • Diagnoses:

    • Polycythemia vera

  • Symptoms:

    • No symptoms, caught at routine physical

  • Treatment:

    • Bloodletting
    • Besremi (ropeginterferon alfa-2b-njft)

  • Follow-up Protocol:

    • Approximately every 2 months, but depends on the numbers

You have to look at it as a whole and really be in it for the long term.

Nick N. timeline



Introduction

I’m very much a family man. I have two young kids, 9 and 5, [and] married to my beautiful wife, Kara, for 13 years. A lot of [my] life is centered around my family and just being there for them.

I love sports. I was a baseball player and basketball player [throughout] college.

I love to help people. Since my diagnosis, I’ve gotten involved in the cause, telling my story, [and] also hear other people’s stories and share perspectives.

Nick N. family

I wanted to get pampered for a day… That’s the only reason why I went in for a physical.

Nick N. family

Pre-diagnosis

Why did you go in for a physical?

My work pays for an all-day physical. The only reason I did that was [that] I wanted to get pampered for a day. They do the work up, you’re in a robe, and they have a whole area where you could sit and have snacks.

I kept hearing about that and I say, “You know what? I’m going to take a day off from work. I’m going to go do it.” That’s the only reason why I went in for a physical. Otherwise, I think it was five or six years since the last time I had a physical.

I felt like I wanted to stay ahead of any potential issues that would come up, which I haven’t been doing. Lesson learned big time.

Now, having the benefit of understanding what the disease is and what the symptoms are, I could point to points over the last 10 years and even going back 20 years where I probably felt some symptoms and just ignored them.

What led you to go to a doctor in the first place?

This is really part of the issue with polycythemia vera and MPNs in general. Sometimes the symptoms and what you’re feeling are nondescript [so] you can ignore them. That was very much the case with me.

I wasn’t really feeling too much. I went to a physical, got a full blood workup, and they flagged a few numbers. Even at that point, I didn’t really think I was going to follow up. I was kind of debating it. My wife really pushed me to follow up and that started the ball rolling [for] the diagnosis.

I can’t really point to one thing in particular [that] I was feeling. Now, having the benefit of understanding what the disease is and what the symptoms are, I could point to points over the last 10 years and even going back 20 years where I probably felt some symptoms and just ignored them.

What were some of your polycythemia vera symptoms?

Blurry vision and headaches — [those are] big ones I experienced throughout my life. I remember being at the dinner table, eating Sunday meatballs with my family, and just sort of going blank, thinking that I just needed two minutes. Hopefully, no one asks me a question or engages me in a conversation.

Itching for sure. Fatigue. I’ve learned how to pinpoint what’s just kid fatigue and what’s polycythemia vera fatigue. There’s a big difference in that. I’ve learned that over the years.

It’s the total body [fatigue]. It really prevents you [from being] able to function, which sounds crazy. People say, “I’m tired,” all the time but it is total body fatigue where your body is shutting down and saying, “I can’t go anymore and if you try and push me, I’m going to just get worse.”

»MORE: Myeloproliferative Neoplasms (MPNs) Patient Stories & Specialist Interviews

Nick N. family

I kept trying to get the results over the phone. They wouldn’t give it to me. That should have been my first clue that something is wrong.

Nick N. family

How did the conversation about your results go?

I didn’t have a primary care physician so lesson learned.

First and foremost, I’ve built a team. But at that particular point, it was a hematologist and oncologist that I had followed up with.

I kept trying to get the results over the phone. They wouldn’t give it to me. That should have been my first clue that something is wrong.

Finally, [on] the third or fourth attempt, they said, “No, you have to come in. We’re not giving you the results over the phone.” But even at that point, I still didn’t think anything was wrong.

The appointment was the same week that I found out that we were pregnant with Jake, my second child. I was totally consumed. The office I was going to was right next to where we would go for our gynecologist checkups. I didn’t even have a thought in my mind that something was wrong.

Was there any urgency in seeing the doctor?

I put it off for a little while but Kara was like, “No, you should get a checkup. We’re getting older and you should really follow through with it.”

They said, “Your hematocrits and your platelets are high.” Again, another aspect of polycythemia vera and MPNs that are nondescript is that hematocrits and platelets can fluctuate. If you’re [at] high altitude, your numbers can rise.

They gave me the option. They said, “You could follow up immediately or follow up in a year.” Kara was like, “What do you have to lose, right? Just follow up and see what the result is.”

I followed up and they flagged the numbers. They brought me in to have a discussion. Then from there, I went to Cornell and had a bone marrow biopsy to confirm it.

Nick N. and wife Kara

The doctor sat me down and said, ‘You don’t have leukemia, but you do have this other type of rare blood cancer.’ As soon as I heard that, I went blank.

Nick N.

Diagnosis

How did the meeting with the hematologist-oncologist go?

I did not have Kara with me. I just didn’t think anything was wrong.

The doctor sat me down and said, “You don’t have leukemia, but you do have this other type of rare blood cancer.” As soon as I heard that, I went blank.

I don’t remember too much. I remember him saying, “You have polycythemia vera and I’d like to do a phlebotomy now.” I didn’t know what phlebotomy was.

In my advocacy work, I’ve really tried to stress the importance of that moment. I call it a moment of truth. It’s not about the doctors and it’s not their fault. 

That particular moment can impact a patient’s psyche [in] one way or the other. They’ll go down a rabbit hole or they can become really calm. I went completely the other way where I was just blank. Confused really is the right word to describe it.

What was your reaction to the diagnosis?

Immediately, my mind just went [to] death, to be honest. How long do I have?

Then you start to walk off the ledge a little bit once you become more educated about what you have. For me, it was a whole year before I really understood it.

I didn’t know how I got it. I didn’t know what the long-term prognosis was. It was just a very confusing time.

How did you break the news to your family?

I specifically remember where I parked in the parking lot. I monotonously walked to my car [and] spent about 15 minutes [inside]. All these questions flooded in, questions that I should have asked the doctor. The top one was, “How?”

How did I acquire this? Was it something I ate? Was it alcohol? How long am I going to live? Then you start doing the worst thing that you could possibly do, which is Google. 

I called my brother, [who’s] a dentist, and asked, “What is this? You know what this is?” He said, “No, but I’m going to find out.”

I went home and told Kara. I remember she was in the front room playing with Nicholas at the time and we just stared at each other.

It was just a confusing name — polycythemia vera. It’s a confusing moment. That’s the only word that I could really use. I didn’t know how I got it. I didn’t know what the long-term prognosis was. It was just a very confusing time.

What were the next steps for you and Kara?

We wanted a second opinion so we [went] to Cornell. That doctor was really great and really [broke] it down, explaining exactly what it was and how it would evolve.

I don’t know if that put us at ease. Walking into Cornell and seeing people that are just a lot further along than I was or had different types of blood cancer, I had to leave the room. I got really, really emotional.

Nick N. family

Nick N. family

What was the emotional impact of the diagnosis?

I’m getting emotional thinking back [to] that particular moment. That’s where the sadness kicked in. It went from confusion to sadness.

It brings back all the moments, all the thoughts about my kids and not being there. My wife [was] pregnant at the time [and] looking at her and not being there for her. We’re supposed to be life partners.

I developed anxiety over it. I still get anxiety. It was difficult.

I think it was seeing people at Cornell who were older but also some young individuals that were struggling to walk and needed a lot of support. It was tough to see that because I envisioned myself as that person and my wife having to help me walk. 

I like to be active. I coach my kids’ baseball teams. I kind of played out life’s moments and the fact that I was no longer able to do that. It really hit me hard.

It’s not supposed to be that way. You go from angry [to] sad. At that moment, I was angry.

I really struggled with communicating… I felt like I would be looked at like I’m a complainer.

How did you manage your way through the polycythemia vera diagnosis?

I don’t think I managed very well. I internalized everything.

I started to recognize the symptoms more so not only was I dealing with some mental health issues, depression, and anxiety, but also I started to recognize the symptoms.

I really struggled with communicating. How am I supposed to tell Kara I’m tired or I’m itching or I have bone pain or I have blurry vision? I felt like I would be looked at like I’m a complainer.

I internalized everything and it ate at me. It even affected my personality.

It changed me. It’s not supposed to be that way, but life doesn’t always work out perfectly. There [are] so many quotes out there that say, “It’s [not] how you get knocked down, but it’s how you get back up.”

It’s tough to realize that [at] that moment. Some people can, some people take a while. It took a while for me to realize that.

Nick N. family

Nick N. family

Why did you decide to go to Weill Cornell Medicine for cancer treatment?

The local doctor recommended someone at Cornell. I’ve changed doctors since then. I figured [going there] would be a good first step. It was a very well-known institution so I felt comfortable going there and validating the diagnosis.

The great thing about this particular doctor was [that] he got up on a whiteboard and sketched out where it came from — the bone marrow, the particular body part, the long bones, and the evolution of the stem cell mutation.

He really took the time. We were there for three or four hours [with] him just explaining it. I also had the bone marrow biopsy but a good portion of that was him explaining it and answering our questions. We didn’t feel rushed at all, which was great.

How was your bone marrow biopsy experience?

I thought about the greater good. That sounds odd, right? But the way it was explained to me was there will be a portion that will go to research for your particular cancer.

I dove right in because I wanted to find a cure at that point so I would say it’s almost a necessary thing. Just think about the greater good. The more times they do [bone marrow biopies], the more research they’re able to [do], and then ultimately find a cure. That’s really what we’re driving towards.

Telling someone I didn’t know my story was such a freeing experience that it just made it okay to get it out and tell people really how I was feeling. 

How did you deal with all-consuming thoughts?

I would say it took maybe a year plus. I relate it back to being on the Voices of MPN website, signing up for the patient advocacy group the CHAMPNs, and then getting a call from someone I didn’t know about telling my story.

telling my story [to] someone I didn’t know was such a freeing experience. It made it okay to get it out and tell people how I was really feeling. 

It was that particular moment, a year in, [when] I shared my story for the first time [with] someone and that was the jumping-off point where I loved how that felt. It was a freeing feeling and I wanted to continue to do that. That’s what led to the documentary that we filmed, which was life-changing.

No one has to film a documentary. No one has to sign up for a CHAMPN. You can just communicate [with] your significant other or family member and that’s it. That’s doing a world of good, just communicating.

Nick N. documentary

Nick N. family

PV is so much more than the numbers. If you’re going in there having a conversation with your doctor about just numbers, then that’s the wrong conversation.

Living with polycythemia vera (PV)

What people see vs. what you’re actually feeling

A lot of patients look great, but they get beat down by the symptoms. Every single day, very severe. That has an effect on your mental state and your ability to deal with it. But it doesn’t necessarily come through in the physical appearance.

A lot of times, we get dismissed so that’s why I make it a point to talk about it often [with] my doctor. We talk about how I’m feeling. I don’t know what is relevant and what is not. I’ve learned that but I give him everything.

I’ve had an experience prior to this current doctor where I was dismissed. I was viewed as a complainer. I have an experience now where that’s the complete opposite, where we actually have a dialogue about that.

How does polycythemia vera affect daily life?

I would talk about fatigue and itching. One time, he says, “Well, you have kids, right? And you work?” I’m like, “Yeah, but doctor, this is different. This feels different.” [He] was just writing it down and moving on to the numbers.

PV is so much more than the numbers. If you’re going in there having a conversation with your doctor about just numbers, then that’s the wrong conversation.

Nick N. documentary

Nick N. filming the polycythemia vera documentary with his family.

You can experience symptoms that are not related to the numbers being elevated or low or high or in between. People deal with the mental aspect of it more than they like to talk about because it is a constant. It could be a very constant, long-term thing that is tough to deal with on a day-in, day-out basis.

You can’t look at someone’s numbers and say, “You’re good. You should go home today.” That’s not the way the conversation should go. There should be a greater conversation about how you are feeling [and] how you are handling this on a day-to-day basis.

I would wake up, saying, “What’s going to happen today?” I would almost feel something every single day. Either a combination of things or one would be very severe and the others would be very low. It’s really difficult to deal with.

I internalized it. I dealt with it from a mental standpoint and it would distract me. It would really distract me.

I was hanging by every day. What’s going to happen today? What’s going to happen tomorrow? Am I going to progress tomorrow? Are my symptoms are going to be bad? Are they going to be low? It was just consuming.

[The doctor] described the fact that it would be a long-term disease and that didn’t put me at ease. That meant I would have to deal with this for the rest of my life potentially.

He talked about the fact that this is a [slowly] progressing disease. I didn’t want to hear that. I hear, “If I have it at a young age, that gives me more time to progress earlier than someone who is diagnosed a little bit later in life.”

He talked about the randomness of the symptoms. They may pop up when your numbers are high, but they may pop up when they’re not. You may get a whole bunch of symptoms. You may get a few symptoms. They may be severe. They may not be.

It was almost like from that point, I was hanging by every day. What’s going to happen today? What’s going to happen tomorrow? Am I going to progress tomorrow? Are my symptoms going to be bad? Are they going to be low? It was just consuming.

Nick N. Light the Night Walk

Nick N. family

What were you nervous about happening?

Progression into myelofibrosis. I actually researched and pulled numbers from the last few physicals I had. Basically, 10 [to] 15 years prior to diagnosis, my numbers were high then.

You start to think, I’ve had this a lot longer than when I was actually diagnosed so I’m further along on the progression trail. One day, I’m going to wake up and I’m going to have myelofibrosis. That’s really what I was worried about.

I’m still worried about it if I’m being honest. I think about that weekly. I used to think about it daily. But now, I’ve trained myself to think about the good things.

Focusing on the here and now

I focus on the present. I focus on my kids, my wife, [and] the good things in life. There are so many good things about life that we should be in the moment and not get too far ahead of ourselves.

There are a lot more options now, front-line options, with PV than there ever were before.

Treatment for polycythemia vera

The exciting thing is that there’s been a lot of advancement in treatment options for polycythemia vera.

When I was diagnosed, it was a wait-and-see approach. Baby aspirin and phlebotomies every so often.

Phlebotomies can be taxing. My iron levels really dropped. I got into the habit of chewing a lot of ice and that’s directly related to iron levels and anemia. I would empty the fridge, literally, and just chew ice all day. It was really a wait-and-see approach.

I remember when I got to the doctor that I have now and we talked about drugs that are on the horizon. We talked about being a patient advocate or being an advocate for yourself in treatment. I would suggest doing research on what’s out there currently but also what’s to come and really having a conversation with your doctor.

We got to talking about a potential drug that is now FDA-approved that could be a more proactive approach to your treatment options. That’s the drug that I’m on now, Besremi. That also is supposed to slow progression, which was something that I was extremely worried about and a lot of PV patients are, too.

There are a lot more options now, front-line options, with PV than there ever were before.

Nick N. Light the Night

Nick N. family

What does it feel like doing something to prevent progression?

It feels like I’m actually doing something to help myself.

At a certain point, when I got comfortable with my diagnosis, I ate differently. I went with a very clean diet. I gave up alcohol because that’s inflammatory. I gave up some inflammatory foods thinking that would help with my symptoms.

At that moment, I said I was going to do everything that I possibly [could] to guard against this thing progressing. That’s what I felt like going on this drug in particular because I felt like I was being proactive about my disease and I was doing everything in my power to prevent it from progressing.

It helps me deal with this mentally, knowing that I’m doing everything I can to help. I didn’t want to leave anything on the table. That’s how I view it.

It feels like I’m actually doing something to help myself.

How is being on Besremi different compared to previous treatment options?

Sometimes I’d go months without a phlebotomy and then all of a sudden, I’d have to go every two weeks again. That’s the frustrating part because you can take that and overreact to it.

I equate polycythemia vera and MPNs to a baseball season and even a basketball season. A basketball season is 82 games. It’s long. You can’t overreact to any one game or one day, one loss or one win. You have to look at it as a whole and really be in it for the long term. It would be every two weeks, every three weeks.

Now, I inject every other week and my symptoms have gone away for the most part. I’m not chewing ice anymore. I feel a lot better. I have a lot more energy. I’m in a good place.

Nick N. in son's school

Nick N. family

Words of advice

You really need someone who’s removed from the diagnosis [to receive] the information, ask questions, and think with a little more clarity than you.

[For] any doctor’s appointment, just prepare like it’s a business meeting and think through scenarios [and] questions to ask. Try not to get too far ahead.

Don’t go at it alone. I know there are people that struggle with this mentally. Just make sure that you have a support system. There is support out there.

Communicate. If you don’t communicate, it’s going to eat away at you. There are different ways to communicate. There’s written, email, social, [and] person-to-person.

There are a lot of great advocacy groups out there that I joined just to share perspectives. One of the great things about a support group is that you hear different perspectives. People deal with things differently and you gain just knowledge.

There’s support out there. Please, there’s support.

Importance of seeing an MPN specialist

One thing related to this, and what I would leave people with, is that there is a support system out there beyond family and friends. The MPN community is small, but it’s growing and there are people that are willing to help.

Through that community and the people I met, I got to know other doctors. I did my research and settled [on] one doctor in particular [who] really spent the time getting to know me beyond the numbers.

Dr. Heaney, who has recently passed, dedicated his life to helping people. I’m so appreciative [of] having known him for the three years that I did. He’s going to leave a big hole in the MPN community. I love Dr. Heaney. May he rest in peace.

I’m in between doctors right now. I see the difference right away where the current doctor doesn’t understand everything that goes into how we feel, the numbers, understanding of the drugs, and tweaking the drug. Higher doses, lower doses, what the impact might be, the drugs to come, new ways, even holistic ways, to deal with certain symptoms.

That completeness that Dr. Heaney and other MPN experts have is lacking right now. I’m in the process of looking for a new doctor in the same way that I found Dr. Heaney.

Nick N. Light the Night

Nick N. and family filming his polycythemia vera documentary.

Communicating with your partner

I remember having the conversation with Kara and just starting small. I still wasn’t ready to have an in-depth conversation. You will be surprised [by] the positive reaction, support, and love that will come your way and that’s a great feeling.

Please don’t be afraid to share with someone that you care about and love because you’re going to get that right back. I guarantee it.

Don’t go at it alone. I know there are people that struggle with this mentally. Just make sure that you have a support system. There is support out there.


Nick N. feature profile
Thank you for sharing your story, Nick!

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Srdan Verstovsek, MD, PhD



Role: Director, Clinical Research Center for MPNs at MD Anderson; Section Chief, MPNs; Prof., Dept. of Leukemia
Focus: Myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN)
Institution: MD Anderson
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The Latest in Myelofibrosis Treatments - Clinical Trials

Clinical Trials and You: How to Navigate Treatment?



Patient advocate Ruth Fein Revell, experts Dr. Angela Fleischman and Dr. Ruben Mesa, together with clinical trial nurse Melissa Melendez delve into the cutting-edge realm of myelofibrosis clinical trials.

Ruben Mesa, MD



Role: Executive Director, Mays Cancer Center; Prof. of Medicine
Focus: Myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN)
Institution: UT Health San Antonio MD Anderson


Categories
Breast Cancer Medical Experts Medical Update Article

SABCS 2022 Highlights

SABCS 2022 Highlights

What’s NEW in Breast Cancer Treatment in 2023

Top Breast Cancer Docs Discuss Emerging Research

Kelly Shanahan was an OB-GYN with her own private practice. In 2008, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Five years later, she learned the cancer was back and it was now stage 4. From that moment, she went from doctor to professional patient.

Since her diagnosis, she has been attending big medical conferences, including the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium, where thousands of the top minds in medicine and research from around the world discuss the latest in breast cancer research.

In this conversation, she along with top breast cancer doctors Dr. Paolo Tarantino with Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Dr. Lola Fayanju with Penn Medicine discuss the big highlights from San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium 2022.

The conference heavily focused on the new subcategory of patients: HER2-low.


This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.


Dr. Kelly Shanahan with daughter

Dr. Kelly Shanahan: [When I learned about my diagnosis I thought] I can’t die before my mom. I can’t leave my daughter. I had to stop practicing. I really felt adrift. Why am I using up oxygen on this planet?

It was crazy because I felt stupid. I’m a physician. I should know 25 to 35% of people with an early-stage diagnosis, especially hormone receptor positive, will eventually become metastatic. I’m five years out. I should be cured. It really hit me hard.

If you’re treated by a community oncologist, they might have one or two people with metastatic breast cancer in their whole practice. They’re doing everything — lung, colon, blood cancers etc. They’re not going to be up to date on what is happening.

I’m five years out. I should be cured. It really hit me hard.

Dr. Kelly Shanahan,
Metastatic Breast Cancer Patient Advocate

Dr. Paolo Tarantino: For more than 20 years, we thought that HER2 was either positive or negative. Positive was about 20% of the tumors (were very aggressive) [and] needed to be treated with chemotherapy, with many agents against HER2. The other 80% [were] treated very differently.

But what happened is that in that 80%, we knew that even if we called it negative, there was some HER2, just not enough to call it positive.

Nowadays, more than half of all patients with breast cancer are called HER2-low because they have an expression of 1+ or 2+ non-amplified.

What was impressive to see is that in this very large population of patients, delivering chemotherapy with this new class of drugs that we call antibody drug conjugates — and with trastuzumab deruxtecan in particular, T-DXd or Enhertu — was very effective, much more effective than traditional chemotherapy.

Dr. Paolo Tarantino with US mentor Dr. Sara Tolaney at SABCS 2022
Dr. Paolo Tarantino with US mentor
Dr. Sara Tolaney at SABCS 2022

This drug has been approved and is now available. We use it to treat many patients with metastatic breast cancer.

The impact has been very large, not only because this has improved the shrinkage or the duration of the response but also the survival of patients with metastatic breast cancer.

For more than 20 years, we thought that HER2 was either positive or negative… Nowadays, more than half of all patients with breast cancer are called HER2-low.

Dr. Paolo Tarantino

Dr. Kelly Shanahan

Dr. Shanahan: HER2 was originally cancer that is so aggressive and people just don’t do as well. Then Herceptin came along, Perjeta came along, and now these antibody drug conjugates.

They have made a huge difference to the point where those of us that have ER-positive disease are going, “I wish I was HER2 positive,” because there [are] so many more options and things that are working really, really well.

I think what we’re learning in some of the data from these trials is if you have a really high level of HER2 — your HER2 positive, HER2 3+ — for a lot of people, it’s going to work really, really well.

If it’s 2+, it’s still going to work but maybe not quite as well. Then 1+ and 0, there might be some efficacy. It might work even in people who have no HER2 overexpression.

In this setting, metastatic breast cancer, we really need options because so many times, patients run out of treatment options.

Dr. Tarantino

Dr. Tarantino: In metastatic breast cancer, we really need options because so many times, patients run out of treatment options.

We use all the most effective treatments that we have — endocrine treatment, taxane, capecitabine, biologic agents, anthracyclines — and in the end, we really don’t have any more effective options.

Sometimes, we have to recycle chemotherapies. We really would like to use a drug that is proven to be efficacious and even to improve survival in HER2-low patients.

Dr. Shanahan: One of the things important for patients to know is that you can look back on biopsies from your original breast cancer diagnosis or if you were diagnosed with mets from the get-go, de novo metastatic disease, that can be looked at to see, “Do I have a little bit of HER2? Do I have none at all?”

That opens up this whole avenue of these new antibody drug conjugates as a treatment option. I think that’s really exciting because the more options we have, the better.

Dr. Paolo Tarantino at work in Boston

Many of the Black women who aren’t participating in clinical trials… need to have faith in the healthcare system that has let down Black people for generations

Dr. Lola Fayanju

Dr. Lola Fayanju operating
Dr. Lola Fayanju performing a double mastectomy at Duke

Dr. Lola Fayanju, Penn Medicine: I’m part of a panel on patient-reported outcomes, which are opportunities for patients to describe how they’re feeling, what symptoms they’re experiencing, [and] what psychosocial challenges they might have that might prevent them from optimizing their breast cancer journey.

There’s diversity across different communities. Many of the Black women who aren’t participating in clinical trials [don’t] necessarily need more socioeconomic help. It’s that they need to have faith in the healthcare system that has let down Black people for generations.

Many of the women who choose not to participate in clinical trials who are African American, [don’t participate] not because they can’t afford to do so. It’s that they have a justified mistrust in the system, a system that has not earned the trustworthiness of people of color.

I think that descriptions of trial results matter. Words matter.

Descriptions of trial results matter. Words matter.

Dr. Lola Fayanju

Dr. Shanahan: I had a conversation that some of these trials cost a billion dollars!

If you don’t have advocates involved early to make sure your design is going to be palatable to patients, that the questions you’re asking make sense to provide treatments, to make lives not only longer but better, you’re wasting time, you’re wasting money, [and] you’re wasting lives.

You’re an advocate. You’re an advocate for yourself.

If you were that PTA mom that raised money through bake sales to get a new playground for your kid’s school, you’d be great at fundraising for support groups [and] for research.

If you’re that person that goes to the city council meetings who’s going, “Why are you putting a stop sign here?” then maybe legislative advocacy, trying to get bills passed locally or nationally to help benefit the metastatic community is your place.

Dr. Kelly Shanahan hiking

You’re an advocate. You’re an advocate for yourself… Everybody has a place and everybody has a role.

Dr. Shanahan


Breast Cancer Patient Stories

Amelia

Amelia L., IDC, Stage 1, ER/PR+, HER2-



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer.
1st Symptoms: Lump found during self breast exam
Treatment: TC chemotherapy; lumpectomy, double mastectomy, reconstruction; Tamoxifen

Rachel Y., IDC, Stage 1B



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. Stage 1B.
1st Symptoms: None, caught by delayed mammogram
Treatment: Double mastectomy, neoadjuvant chemotherapy, hormone therapy Tamoxifen
Rach smiling against fall leaves

Rach D., IDC, Stage 2, Triple Positive



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer.
1st Symptoms: Lump in right breast
Treatment: Neoadjuvant chemotherapy, double mastectomy, targeted therapy, hormone therapy
Caitlin

Caitlin J., IDC, Stage 2B, ER/PR+



Cancer Details: ER/PR positive = estrogen and progesterone receptor positive
1st Symptoms:
Lump found on breast
Treatment:
Lumpectomy, AC/T chemotherapy, radiation, and hormone therapy (Lupron and Anastrozole)

Joy R., IDC, Stage 2, Triple Negative



Cancer details: Triple negative doesn’t have any receptors commonly found in breast cancer making it harder to treat
1st Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: Chemo, double mastectomy, hysterectomy

Callie M., IDC, Stage 2B, Grade 2, ER+



Cancer Details: ER positive = estrogen receptor positive
1st Symptoms:
Dimpling/lump found on breast
Treatment:
Mastectomy, AC/T chemotherapy, hysterectomy, reconstruction
Monica

Monica H., IDC, Stage 2B & Undifferentiated Pleomorphic Sarcoma



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer.
1st Symptoms: Tightness and lump in left breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy, radiation, surgery

Stefanie H., IDC, Stage 3, Triple Positive



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. Triple positive = positive for HER2, estrogen receptor (ER), progesterone receptor (PR)
1st Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: chemotherapy, lumpectomy, radiation
Doreen

Doreen D., IDC, Stage 2A, Triple Positive



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. Triple positive = positive for HER2, estrogen receptor (ER), progesterone receptor (PR)
1st Symptoms: Lump in left breast
Treatment: Neoadjuvant chemotherapy (TCHP), lumpectomy, radiation
Melissa sitting in her car

Melissa H., Stage 2B, Triple Negative



Cancer details: Triple negative doesn’t have any receptors commonly found in breast cancer making it harder to treat
1st Symptoms: Lump in left breast
Treatment: Mastectomy, chemotherapy, 2nd mastectomy
Genoa

Genoa M., IDC, Stage 3, HER2+



Cancer details: HER2-positive tends to be more aggressive than HER2-negative cases
1st Symptoms: Nausea
Treatment: Chemotherapy, radiation

Andrea A., IDC, Stage 2B/3, ER+



Cancer details: Found cancer while pregnant
1st Symptoms: Divot in breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy, radiation, surgery

Stephanie J., Stage 3, Triple Negative, BRCA1+



Cancer details: Triple negative doesn’t have any receptors commonly found in breast cancer
1st Symptoms: Lump in left breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy, surgery

Renee N., IDC, Stage 3-4, HER2+



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer.
1st Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomy, radiation

Shari S., Stage 4, Metastatic, Triple Positive



Cancer details: Triple positive = positive for HER2, estrogen receptor (ER), progesterone receptor (PR)
1st Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation
Erin

Erin C., IDC, Stage 2B/4, Metastatic, Triple Negative



Cancer details: Triple negative doesn’t have any receptors commonly found in breast cancer making it harder to treat
1st Symptoms: Pain in breast
Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation
Margaret A. feature

Margaret A., IDC & DCIS, Stage 2B



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. DCIS means cancer has not spread into surrounding breast tissue
1st Symptoms: Pain in left breast, left nipple inverting
Treatment: Double mastectomy, chemo (AC-T), Radiation

Abigail J., Stage 4, Metastatic



Cancer Details: HER2-low, node negative, PIK3CA mutation



1st Symptoms: Back and leg pain, lump in breast



Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, CDK4/6 inhibitors
Bethany W. feature profile

Bethany W., Stage 2, ER+



Symptoms: Lump in breast and armpit
Treatment: Chemotherapy, double mastectomy, radiation
Bethany W. feature profile

Bethany W., Stage 4 Metastatic



Symptoms: Lower back pain
Treatment: Chemotherapy, radiation, maintenance treatment
Lainie J.

Lainie J., IDC, Stage 2, HER2+



Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy, double mastectomy, radiation
Cynthia is the founder of Learn Look Locate, a breast cancer community
Cynthia J., IDC, Stage 2B Diagnosis: Stage 2B Breast Cancer Symptoms: Architectural distortion on mammogram Treatment: Double mastectomy, radiation
Nikki M., Stage 3 HER2+ Inflammatory Diagnosis: Stage 3 Inflammatory Breast Cancer Symptoms: Centralized pain around the nipple, inverted nipple, swollen breast, differences in nipple color, warm-feeling breast Treatment: Chemotherapy, single mastectomy, radiotherapy

Margaret A. feature

Margaret A., IDC & DCIS, Stage 2B



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. DCIS means cancer has not spread into surrounding breast tissue
1st Symptoms: Pain in left breast, left nipple inverting
Treatment: Double mastectomy, chemo (AC-T), Radiation

Alison R., Partially Differentiated DCIS, Stage 4 Metastatic



Cancer details: Triple positive = positive for HER2, estrogen receptor (ER), progesterone receptor (PR)
1st Symptoms: Lump in underarm/breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy, surgery, radiation, targeted therapy

Natalie
Natalie W., DCIS, Stage 0, ER+; Paget’s Disease



Cancer Details: Only 1-4% of breast cancer cases also includes Paget’s
1st Symptoms: 2cm lump found in right breast
Treatment: Lumpectomy, double subcutaneous mastectomy, hormone therapy
Margaret A. feature

Margaret A., IDC & DCIS, Stage 2B



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. DCIS means cancer has not spread into surrounding breast tissue
1st Symptoms: Pain in left breast, left nipple inverting
Treatment: Double mastectomy, chemo (AC-T), Radiation
Tina C., DCIS & LCIS, Stage 3A, ER+



Cancer details: Both ductal and lobular, estrogen receptor positive. Different than breast cancer Tina’s mom was diagnosed w/ twice.
1st Symptoms: Sunken in nipple of right breast
Treatment: Double mastectomy, chemotherapy, radiation, hormone therapy

Cat L., IDC & DCIS, Stage 2B



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer. DCIS means cancer has not spread into surrounding breast tissue
1st Symptoms: Pain in left breast radiating from lump
Treatment: Bilateral mastectomy, chemotherapy

Sherrie shares her stage 4 metastatic breast cancer story
Sherri O., Metastatic Breast Cancer & Colon Cancer Diagnosis: Colon & Metastatic Breast Cancer Symptoms: Shortness of breath, lump under armpit, not feeling herself Treatment: Chemotherapy, Transfusions
April D.

April D., Metastatic Triple Negative, BRCA1+



Symptoms: Four lumps on the side of the left breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy (carboplatin, paclitaxel doxorubicin, surgery (double mastectomy), radiation (proton therapy), PARP inhibitors
Brittney shares her stage 4 breast cancer story
Brittney B., Metastatic Breast Cancer Diagnosis: Stage 4 Breast Cancer Symptoms: Lump in the right breast, inverted nippleTreatment: Surgery, chemo, immunotherapy, radiation
Bethany W. feature profile

Bethany W., Stage 4 Metastatic



Symptoms: Lower back pain
Treatment: Chemotherapy, radiation, maintenance treatment

Abigail J., Stage 4, Metastatic



Cancer Details: HER2-low, node negative, PIK3CA mutation



1st Symptoms: Back and leg pain, lump in breast



Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, CDK4/6 inhibitors

Alison R., Partially Differentiated DCIS, Stage 4 Metastatic



Cancer details: Triple positive = positive for HER2, estrogen receptor (ER), progesterone receptor (PR)
1st Symptoms: Lump in underarm/breast
Treatment: Chemotherapy, surgery, radiation, targeted therapy
Erin

Erin C., IDC, Stage 2B/4, Metastatic, Triple Negative



Cancer details: Triple negative doesn’t have any receptors commonly found in breast cancer making it harder to treat
1st Symptoms: Pain in breast
Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation

Shari S., Stage 4, Metastatic, Triple Positive



Cancer details: Triple positive = positive for HER2, estrogen receptor (ER), progesterone receptor (PR)
1st Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation

Renee N., IDC, Stage 3-4, HER2+



Cancer details: IDC is most common kind of breast cancer.
1st Symptoms: Lump in breast
Treatment: chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomy, radiation

Categories
Leukemia & Lymphoma Medical Experts Medical Update Article

DLBCL in 2023

DLBCL in 2023

What Patients & Caregivers Need to Know Now

The Patient Story founder and DLBCL advocate Stephanie Chuang leads this conversation with Dr. Josh Brody, who leads the Lymphoma Immunotherapy Program at Mount Sinai’s Tisch Cancer Institute, and Dr. Lorenzo Falchi, an oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center with special research focus on immunotherapies for B-cell non-Hodgkin lymphoma.


Genmab

Thank you to Genmab for its support of our patient education program! The Patient Story retains full editorial control over all content.

This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.



Introduction

Stephanie Chuang, The Patient Story: I was diagnosed with cancer when I was 31 years old and, like many people, I was completely overwhelmed [and] freaked out. I thought, Am I going to die? I think that’s a pretty common thing to think when you’ve been diagnosed with cancer. I was really thankful to learn that there was a standard of care treatment in chemotherapy that seemed to have a pretty good impact on cancer and DLBCL.

I underwent dose-adjusted R-EPOCH — a little bit different from the usual R-CHOP. I remember my doctor telling me, “Look, Stephanie, if you can hit two years after treatment is done and the cancer is gone, you’re still in remission. That’s a really good sign.”

It’s great news that I was able to get through treatment and get into remission. But that wait was really hard. Lots of anxiety and scanxiety as it’s known. I was able to hit two years and, in fact, most recently I celebrated my five years. But so many people cannot say that.

That’s where the problem is. There’s a really great need for more options in treatment. If that first treatment fails, when cancer comes back or if it never responded, [relapsed/refractory cancer] and that’s what we’re talking about.

What are the treatments out there? What are the options? What should you know to ask your doctor in terms of the research that’s going on out there?

Stephanie Chuang

There’s good news. There [are] a lot of different things happening in clinical trials, whether it’s new drugs or new combinations, new tactics, and a lot of immunotherapy using your own immune system to fight cancer.

I’m really excited to bring together two top DLBCL specialists and, hopefully, shed some light for you, especially during what is a very difficult time.

Dr. Josh Brody leads the Lymphoma Immunotherapy Program at Mount Sinai’s Tisch Cancer Institute.

Dr. Lorenzo Falchi is an oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center with special research focus on immunotherapies for B-cell non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

There’s a lot of new information and updates coming out of the biggest meeting of top blood cancer doctors and researchers called ASH or [the] American Society of Hematology, which just took place.

Dr. Brody, a lot of people wonder — I certainly did when I was diagnosed — why me? What did I do to get this? This is something you hear a lot from your patients as well.

There’s nothing you did. You got this for the same reason that people get hit by lightning. Nothing that they did.

Dr. Brody

Dr. Josh Brody

Dr. Josh Brody: In the very beginning, when patients get diagnosed, a lot of questions [are] coming out of a place of fear, [which is] very natural and understandable. How did I get this? What did I do? As though someone wants to blame themselves for this. I guess it’s natural.

Our first thing is to go and say, “There’s nothing you did. You got this for the same reason that people get hit by lightning. Nothing that they did. You got this, primarily for most patients, because of one cause and one cause only: bad luck. That’s why you got this.”

Then we say, “In context, it could have been worse luck because there are worse things you could even have.”

Of course, the questions are, “What can I eat to make this get better? What vitamins can I take?” The answer is you should eat [healthily] and be healthy. Being healthy is not just about eating; it’s about physical activity and exercise.

We have a ton of data that physical activity and living healthy improves outcomes for cancers, for lymphomas. But we don’t micromanage and have a specific, “Oh, you need these blueberries, this green tea, this antioxidant.” Healthy eating [and] healthy living is critical, but the details [are] probably not critical.

Being healthy is not just about eating; it’s about physical activity and exercise. We have a ton of data that physical activity and living healthy improves outcomes for cancers, for lymphomas.

Dr. Brody

Immunotherapy for DLBCL

Stephanie, TPS: What can be critical is how much we know, as patients and caregivers or care partners, to make sure that we’re getting the best care.

The standard of care has been R-CHOP as a first-line [treatment] for people in aggressive chemotherapy. But if that doesn’t work for the patient, then there’s that gap. What can we go to?

There’s been this big focus on immunotherapy and we’ve heard about CAR T-cell therapy and that’s been approved in DLBCL. What was really exciting at [ASH 2022] is bispecific antibodies and that’s really had a lot of progress in research, too.

Dr. Brody: We were already lucky in lymphoma to have more progress than before. [In the] last couple of years, I would say the rate of progress has only increased.

If there’s a unifying theme of things that are being invented in labs by companies [and] in academia, it’s immunotherapy [or] using our patients’ immune systems to kill their own cancer.

People thought this was a bunch of hocus pocus 15 [or] 10 years ago. We’re going to use your immune system to fight this problem. But now, it is a real, measurable, making-people-live-instead-of-die thing.

The progress in DLBCL immunotherapy has been unprecedented, especially [in] the last couple of years. The most obvious examples are CAR T-cells. When I describe this science-fiction-like immunotherapy to my patients, they say, “But that’s not a real thing.” I say, “No, it’s real,” and then we describe it. It’s quite remarkable.

[There is] even this somewhat-simpler type of immunotherapy that I think will actually have [a] greater impact overall than CAR T-cells, which is this class of medicines called bispecific antibodies. [It’s] another immunotherapy that gets your immune cells to kill cancer cells. 

The progress in DLBCL immunotherapy has been unprecedented.

Dr. Brody

CAR T-cell therapy in earlier lines of treatment for DLBCL

Stephanie, TPS: To be clear, the idea of using your own immune cells to kill cancer is an idea that’s been around but in the last few years is when we’re really seeing the impact of this.

Before we dive into this big buzz of bipecifics, let’s talk about CAR T. As some people may or may not know, there have been three CAR Ts that have been approved in DLBCL, but they’ve been approved for third-line of treatment. Again, the first treatment didn’t work, [the] second treatment didn’t work, [and] now we’re going to the third one.

Dr. Brody, as you mentioned, CAR T has been able to put many patients into deep, complete remission, which is what we’re looking for. But the last year has shown that CAR T can be promising even earlier on. Is that right?

Dr. Brody: Some big trials [are] showing remarkable benefit [with] CAR T-cells as second-line therapy — not as the first therapy, but as second-line therapy. They had to show that they were better than the standard in that place.

That standard for second-line was aggressive chemo and autologous stem cell transplant, which is just very aggressive chemo. It was focused on the highest-risk people, [those] with DLBCL who relapsed within the first 12 months. That meant a lot of people relapsed in month 3 [and] month 6. Some of them didn’t even relapse at all; they got no response at all from the front-line R-CHOP chemotherapy. 

On these highest-risk patients, the benefit of CAR T-cells compared to the old standard was remarkable. Many more of them [are] staying in remission for months now. Now, at [ASH 2022], we have a year-and-a-half follow-up. One of those trials [shows] many more patients staying in remission. 

[With] the old numbers with CAR T-cells, we thought maybe we were curing 35-40% of patients just with CAR T-cells. We’ll see if those numbers reproduce or might even be better now [by] using them in the second-line setting. That is for the highest-risk group of DLBCL patients that we’re talking about.

Bispecific antibodies are a real breakthrough class of medications for lymphoma and many hematologic malignancies… I like to refer to bispecific as the third big milestone in immunotherapy for lymphoma.

Dr. Falchi

Bispecific antibodies in the treatment of DLBCL

Stephanie, TPS: That’s really great. Let’s go into bispecific antibodies or bispecifics. Dr. Falchi, what is going on with them? Why are people so excited by them and how do they work?

Dr. Lorenzo Falchi: Bispecific antibodies are a real breakthrough class of medications for lymphoma and many hematologic malignancies, that is blood cancers. What makes them a breakthrough is they’re novel technology that really translated into very impressive clinical results and a real benefit for patients.

I like to refer to bispecifics as the third big milestone in immunotherapy for lymphoma. The first [is] monospecific antibodies, like rituximab that most people are familiar with in the field. The second [is] CAR T-cell therapy. I think the third would be bispecific antibodies.

Dr. Lorenzo Falchi

Dr. Brody: Bispecific [antibodies are] actually very similar to CAR T. CAR T sounds so fancy. It’s hard to believe. We take some immune cells out of your blood. It takes a few hours, not too big of a deal. We put a new gene in them. The gene is called a CAR gene.

You put that CAR into the T-cells. Now they call them CAR T-cells. We take the blood out, mail this someplace — it used to be Santa Monica, now there [are] a few places — and then they mail it back to you. Then you reinfuse those CAR T-cells into the patient.

Bispecific antibodies [use a] very similar idea, just maybe a little simpler even. We don’t actually have to take T-cells out to make them recognize lymphoma. We put in a bispecific antibody.

Many folks have heard of rituximab. The regular antibody binds to one protein on one cell. [A] bispecific antibody binds to two cells. It binds to your lymphoma cell, binds to your T-cell, [and] brings them together. One of my colleagues said, “This is like the ‘Lady and the Tramp’ with the spaghetti in between them.”

At the very end of the spaghetti, in this case, it’s the kiss of death, because the T-cell kills the cancer cell. That “Lady and the Tramp” image is a pretty good one. I have to credit Dr. Matthew Lunning for the “Lady and the Tramp” metaphor. [With] that kiss of death, these T-cells are highly activated and able to kill. That immune cell kills that cancer cell quite effectively.

In folks where standard therapies didn’t work, where CAR T-cells weren’t working, it seems like more than a third of patients with these bispecific antibodies are getting complete remissions. Again, that’s the highest-risk group of patients. In the worst-case scenario, it seems like more than a third of them are getting complete remissions. 

Even when the best things weren’t working, bispecifics, [and] epcoritamab in that case, [was] still highly effective.

Dr. Brody

Bispecifics in clinical trials

Stephanie, TPS: Let’s break down what we should be looking for in terms of bispecifics. As we know, these drugs are being developed in clinical trials. There are different phases where they’re bringing them to patients and seeing how patients do on them, studying dosages, and not just how effective they are in terms of how much more people can live without the disease but how well. What are the side effects? Which ones currently in clinical trials are expected to get approvals sooner?

Dr. Falchi: I think it emerged quite clearly that the two main actors in the world of bispecifics for patients with diffuse large B-cell lymphoma are epcoritamab and glofitamab. These drugs are both highly potent. Very, very powerful. In fact, before using them in patients, it was shown in experiments that their potency is exactly the same.

Dr. Brody: Because they have so many patients now, they really got to parse out the patients with high risk, super high risk, and all the different risk factors.

As we said, CAR T is very promising but a year or two ago, if CAR T failed, the options were not great. About a third of the patients in both the epcoritamab and glofitamab trials already had CAR T. CAR T didn’t work because it’s not a guarantee. It’s great, but it’s not a guarantee. 

Epcoritamab or glofitamab — at [ASH 2022], we’re talking more about epcoritamab in that parsing of the data — [were] still giving complete remissions in more than a third of patients. Even when the best things weren’t working, bispecifics, [and] epcoritamab in that case, [was] still highly effective. 

Glofitamab so far has some advantage in that all the recipes for them have been written as time-limited. You get 12 cycles and you’re done. Nine months of therapy and then you get a break. 

Epcoritamab studies have been written so far to be continuous therapy, as long as it’s helping you and not hurting you. Whether we need to keep giving it for a long time, we don’t really know. At least, it’s a difference so far. 

The other big obvious difference is that [with] epcoritamab, the way we [give it] is different. It is a subcutaneous injection, so it’s a quick little shot and you’re done. You’d almost think you could just get it at home, but we haven’t worked on that yet. Glofitamab is an IV infusion still.

Rates and severity of CRS for bispecific antibodies appear to be, at least at this stage, quite substantially different compared to what we see with CAR T-cell.

Dr. Falchi

Cytokine release syndrome (CRS)

Stephanie, TPS: We don’t have any FDA-approved bispecifics in the DLBCL space yet. The hope is that maybe there will be approvals sometime in 2023. This is information based on these research studies.

A very important topic is side effects and quality of life. We can extend life by X number of months or someone’s in remission for this amount of time. But we also truly want to understand: are we going to be able to live well while on this treatment or even once we get off of the treatment? Can you set the stage for what kind of side effects we’ve seen so far in the studies with bispecifics?

Dr. Brody: We talked about all the promises. We do not want to oversell this. There are also side effects of these medicines. The most significant or maybe concerning side effect of all of these bispecifics, really all these immunotherapies, is the risk that we push your immune system too hard and you get a reaction as though you had an infection, but there is no infection. It’s just that we pushed your immune system to react.

One version of that is a side effect [is what] we call CRS: cytokine release syndrome. CRS can be significant. [It can] make you get a high fever [and] make you get low blood pressure. If you get a [really] bad version of this, you have to be in the hospital for observation and sometimes for treatment of that. 

With CAR T-cells, those high-grade CRS events were pretty common. They’ve gotten better as we’ve gotten more experience using them. With bispecifics, the numbers are better but that risk is still there.

For both bispecifics, epcoritamab [and] glofitamab, the standard today is that people have to get hospitalized for at least one day just to observe them after they get the first higher dose of that infusion.

Dr. Falchi: Both administrations are given usually without side effects. The main side effect that ensues a little bit later is something called CRS or cytokine release syndrome. For those who have experienced CAR T-cell, this is a very well-known adverse event.

It’s an inflammatory reaction where people can have fever [and] chills, their blood pressure could decrease a little bit, [and] there can be some confusion. It can be scary because it comes up quite suddenly and it may become quite apparent quite early. Very rarely, it requires hospitalization and may need care.

For the most part, we were very pleased to see, in both the epcoritamab study and the glofitamab study, that the percentage of patients who have a severe cytokine release syndrome is much less than 5%. The majority of patients will have some fever [and] chills, and generally, these will resolve within a day or two.

These rates and severity of CRS for bispecific antibodies appear to be, at least at this stage, quite substantially different compared to what we see with CAR T-cell, particularly Axi-cel, which is one of the most utilized products for diffuse large B-cell lymphoma.

In the CAR T-cell studies, we’re looking at [a] double-digit percent of higher grade CRS. For that reason, most patients, particularly those who are a little bit more advanced age, need to be hospitalized for several days after receiving CAR T-cell.

For bispecific antibodies, we’re looking at a 24- to 48-hour hospitalization. We’re confident that in the future, as we gain more experience, there is a possibility that these drugs — [which are] off-the-shelf products so [they are] immediately accessible — can be given on a fully outpatient basis without having [to be] admitted to the hospital.

Although none of these [bispecifics] are currently approved by the FDA, it is hoped that one or more of them will be approved in the near future because of such promising results.

Dr. Falchi

Deciding whether to give bispecific antibodies or CAR T-cell therapy

Stephanie, TPS: To be clear, we’re not saying that with bispecifics being so promising if they are approved, they’ll erase the need for CAR T-cell therapy. But what we’re talking about is there are details that are coming out in this research that will help doctors, patients, and care partners determine the best treatment path for each individual.

Some of those factors include what is available [and] what is quicker to get because sometimes, time is going to be a big factor. What are the side effects? How long would someone need to be monitored in the hospital or the clinic for side effects that are more severe, like CRS, the way you’ve both described?

Is there anything else that you would consider in making the treatment decision about whether someone should go on a bispecific or CAR T?

Dr. Falchi: On a logistical basis, CAR T-cell therapy is quite an involved therapy. It needs to be administered by specialized centers.

In the US, there [are] many such centers, but they’re not everywhere so it’s important to know where these centers are [and] who can administer those therapies. Doctors have to be certified. Centers have to be certified. It is not a therapy that everyone can give.

They require hospitalization for the majority of patients. Some patients can receive CAR T-cell therapy on an outpatient basis but for now, I would say, that’s a minority of patients. The majority will require hospitalization and monitoring. Even after discharge, oftentimes patients will be required for a period of time to stay in the area where [the] CAR T-cell therapy was administered.

In the post-CAR T-cell therapy period, there’s periodic monitoring where the doctors will want to look at blood counts, other blood work, or scans multiple times in the months ensuing CAR-T cell therapy.

As far as bispecific antibodies are concerned, these are drugs that are administered either subcutaneously or intravenously for the most part, on an outpatient basis. And this is important because although none of these drugs are currently approved by the FDA, it is hoped that one or more of them will be approved in the near future because of such promising results.

Therefore, it’s important for us as academic clinicians and for our colleagues to become very familiar with this product. I think, really, the point to make about these drugs is that they can be safely administered as outpatient therapy. Their main side effect, which is cytokine release syndrome or CRS, is something that is to be expected in a certain percentage of patients and we all will need to become familiar with it and how to manage it promptly.

Management of CRS from bispecific antibodies has not been as “complicated” as it has been for CAR T-cell therapy in the sense that drugs like acetaminophen, drugs like steroids including prednisone or dexamethasone, which are drugs that we very commonly use and most patients are familiar with, are the mainstay of therapy for most cases of CRS related to bispecific antibodies.

Only rarely will patients treated with bispecific antibodies need [a] higher level of care that includes hospitalization and other drugs that are used to calm down a more severe CRS.

With these easier-to-use bispecifics, the next step is how we can combine them with some standard therapies.

Dr. Brody

Bispecifics given as single agents and in earlier lines of treatment

Stephanie, TPS: Bispecifics right now [are] being studied both as single agents, meaning just the bispecifics alone, but also in combination with other treatments that are already being used. We’ll have to see how those turn out.

As we’re also talking about different bispecifics, we know that they’re being tested for later lines — third, fourth, fifth — and then typically what happens is the research tries to move them earlier.

Dr. Brody: The real future of that is not just how good they are alone because we never really cured any cancers alone. We don’t cure some DLBCL patients with C; we cure them with R-CHOP. Combinations are the basis of oncology.

With these easier-to-use bispecifics, the next step is how we can combine them with some standard therapies. That’s already being done. We have some data about that at the ASH [2022] annual meeting and those response rates are extremely high. That is the future.

For now, it’s third-line patients where everything else has failed, but they are very quickly moving up into the second line. We have some data about the second line.

We’ve already started studies bringing them into the first line in combination with standard therapy. It’s a rate of progress. We’re very lucky.

The luckiest thing would be to have no cancer at all, but if you had to have something, [it’s] better to have something where the progress is being made this quickly.

Dr. Falchi: As single agents, I think what we’ve seen is that now, with longer follow-up for these studies, some of those individuals who had a very good response early on tend to maintain that response. There is a suggestion that some of these patients may become long-term disease-free. In other words, being alive and well without evidence of disease at a relatively long follow-up time.

We’re all very cautious toward the word cure, but we certainly believe that there is a potential for these people not to have a recurrence.

[The goal of] adding epcoritamab to that second-line platinum chemotherapy [was] just trying to get complete remission rates up high enough that the transplant would work better.

Dr. Brody

Epcoritamab for transplant-eligible patients who didn’t do well post-transplant

Stephanie, TPS: Thank you, Dr. Falchi. One example is a study that was presented on patients who are eligible for transplant but didn’t do well after the transplant so they’re studying epcoritamab or epco for these patients. What was the main takeaway there?

Dr. Brody: There’s one abstract about epcoritamab plus this aggressive platinum-based chemotherapy. R-DHAOx or R-DHAC are aggressive, platinum-based chemotherapies that are usually a plan B.

Plan A [is] something like R-CHOP and if it doesn’t work, plan B for younger, healthier patients would be to get platinum chemotherapy [like] R-DHAC, R-DHAOx, [or] other similar ones. R-ICE is another similar one there. They’re all just platinum chemotherapies. If it works well, then [they] go on to autologous stem cell transplant.

Stem cell transplant sounds a little elegant because stem cells are involved, but it mostly involves tough chemotherapy. Folks are hospitalized for a while and out of work for a while.

[The goal of] adding epcoritamab to that second-line platinum chemotherapy [was] just trying to get complete remission rates up high enough that the transplant would work better.

In that trial, although patients intended to go on to stem cell transplant, some patients that got complete remission with just epcoritamab plus platinum chemo never did go on to the transplant and are still in remission at beyond a year now.

We cannot yet say if those patients are cured. They may be. A little more follow-up would hopefully confirm that. Epcoritamab is clearly making that chemotherapy work much, much better.

Dr. Falchi: We participated in that study and the early results on a relatively small number of patients appear very promising.

For those patients who are able to complete the program, their chance of response was 100% and the majority of them were complete response, meaning that lymphoma really disappeared. Obviously, we don’t know what’s going to happen in the long term, but there’s certainly a very, very good start.

Importance of patient-reported outcomes

Stephanie, TPS: That sounds so promising. One thing we’d like to highlight is that research relies so heavily on data, on the numbers, and that’s for a very good reason. Putting the numbers and percentages into context is really important.

Some of the research presented at the conference is called PRO or patient-reported outcomes. Very simply, it’s something I hope there’s a lot more of because it gives that context. 

There was one report for epcoritamab on quality of life where 61% of interviewed patients reported [a] positive impact on their daily activities after being on the bispecific. Around 40% reported a positive impact on physical, emotional, and/or social functioning and 80% of patients reported being “very satisfied or satisfied with treatment.”

Now, again, [we] want to stress [that] this was a limited sample size. It was in this clinical trial of more than 100 patients. But I do want to ask you, Dr. Brody, why is this information so important to study?

Dr. Brody: Patient-reported outcomes are critical because the other version of that kind of data is so unfulfilling. It is just these kinds of graphs of adverse effect frequencies but that does not tell the story.

If someone had grade-3 toxicity for 20 minutes or for two years, it adds up as the same on the graph. It’s just they had a grade-3 toxicity.

A human experience is that 20 minutes [is] not so bad. Two years? I would rather have a grade-3 toxicity of many types for a day than have a grade-1 toxicity for a year. Grade-1 toxicity for a year, you maybe can’t go to work or can’t work well.

That’s why patient-reported outcomes [are important] especially, I think, for these immunotherapies, especially for bispecifics.

This main side effect for bispecifics, the most common one, is cytokine release syndrome. It can be bad. It can be serious. You can end up in the ICU from it.

The nice thing about it is people either have it or they don’t. Maybe 20% of people have a bad version of that immune overactivation and [for] those that do, [it] mostly lasts for about a day or two. Then they pretty much don’t ever have it again. That is a grade-3 toxicity, but for most people, it is two days, God-willing, out of their life.

The way we normally report these in meetings, abstracts, and publications falls short because the patient’s perspective is that a two-day side effect is not the same as a two-year side effect. It’s totally neglected in the way we present the data. That’s why the patient-reported outcomes are critical and why the numbers, I think, are very promising for these types of immunotherapies.

These are breakthrough therapies that offer hope to a substantial proportion of individuals, of people that would otherwise have very little outlook suffering from a recurrent lymphoma that can be unforgiving.

Dr. Falchi

Breakthrough therapies for DLBCL offer hope

Stephanie, TPS: Asking patients for their perspectives is so important and, again, something I hope will trend in that upward direction.

What is the general takeaway for DLBCL patients and for their loved ones as we go deeper into 2023?

Dr. Falchi: My general takeaway about bispecific is one of great excitement. It is my line of research because I truly believe that these are breakthrough therapies that offer hope to a substantial proportion of individuals, of people that would otherwise have very little outlook suffering from a recurrent lymphoma that can be unforgiving.

Opening avenues of hope for patients with diffuse large B-cell lymphoma that recurs after one or more lines of therapy, which is very, very challenging to deal with, is something that I think we’re all excited about. I’m personally just looking forward every day to what’s coming next and how many more people we can cure hopefully more and more each day.

Stephanie, TPS: Thank you so much, Dr. Falchi and Dr. Brody. So excited by the things that were discussed. We couldn’t cover everything that’s happening. We’ll definitely be putting on more conversations for people who are wondering more comprehensively what’s available out there.

The numbers are promising, but how soon are we going to see this at our hospital or at our clinic? Will it be accessible? What are the side effects? Will I be able to live life while I’m on this treatment?

With everything that’s happening right now, it is so important to be up to speed on the latest that’s happening so that you can ask those questions of your doctor and make sure that you or your loved one is getting the best care possible. Remember, you are not alone.


Genmab

Thank you to Genmab for their support of our patient education program! The Patient Story retains full editorial control over all content.


DLBCL Patient Stories

Lena V. feature profile

Lena V., Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL), Stage 1



Symptoms: Blood in urine
Treatment: Surgery, chemotherapy (R-CHOP), radiation
Cindy M. feature profile

Cindy M., Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL), Stage 4



Symptoms: Itchy skin on the palms and soles of feet; yellow skin and eyes
Treatment: Chemotherapy (R-CHOP)
Harriet C., Diffuse Large B-Cell Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma (DLBCL) Cancer Diagnosis: Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL)Symptoms: Weight loss, difficulty walking, stomach pain, feeling unwell Treatment: Chemotherapy, EPOCH, methotrexate
Sammie shares her non-hodgkin's lymphoma story
Sammie F., Diffuse Large B-Cell Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma (DLBCL) Cancer Diagnosis: Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL)Symptoms: Chest pain, back pain, bump on neck, night sweats Treatment: Chemotherapy, CAR T-Cell therapy
Alesia A., Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL) Cancer Diagnosis: Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL)Symptoms: Fatigue, shortness of breath, swelling, night sweats, anxiety Treatment: Chemotherapy
Tony W. feature profile

Tony W., Relapsed T-Cell/Histiocyte-Rich Large B-Cell Lymphoma (T/HRBCL)

1st Symptoms: A lot of effort needed cycling, body wasn’t responding the same; leg swelling
Treatment: R-CHOP chemotherapy, CAR T-cell therapy

Jonathan S., Diffuse Large B-Cell (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Severe shoulder pain
Treatment: 6 rounds of R-CHOP chemotherapy, 10 rounds of methotrexate, 12 rounds of focal radiation, autologous stem cell transplant

Leanne T., Follicular Lymphoma Transformed to DLBCL, Stage 3B



1st Symptoms: Fatigue, persistent cough
Treatment: R-CHOP chemotherapy, 6 rounds
Paige C.

Paige C., Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL), Stage 4



Symptoms: Weight loss, extreme fatigue, swollen lymph nodes in the neck
Treatment: R-EPOCH chemotherapy
Stephanie Chuang

Stephanie Chuang



Stephanie Chuang, founder of The Patient Story, celebrates five years of being cancer-free. She shares a very personal video diary with the top lessons she learned since the Non-Hodgkin lymphoma diagnosis.
Kris W.

Kris W., Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Pain in the side of the abdomen
Treatment: R-CHOP chemotherapy
Robyn S. profile

Robyn S., Relapsed Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL), Stage 2E



Symptoms: Enlarged lymph nodes
Treatments: Chemotherapy: R-CHOP, R-ICE, intrathecal, BEAM; autologous stem cell transplant, head and neck radiation, CAR T-cell therapy

Barbara R., Diffuse Large B-Cell (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Abdomen and gastric pain



Treatment: Chemotherapy R-CHOP, CAR T-cell therapy, study drug CYT-0851

Luis V., Diffuse Large B-Cell (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Persistent cough, fatigue, unexplained weight loss



Treatment: Chemotherapy R-CHOP and methotrexate

Nina L., Diffuse Large B-Cell (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Hip and lower extremities pain, night sweats
Treatment: Chemotherapy R-CHOP

Richard P., Relapsed/Refractory Follicular Lymphoma & DLBCL



1st Symptoms of relapse: Swelling in leg, leg edema Treatment:1st line - R-CHOP chemotherapy, 2nd line - clinical trial of venetoclax-selinexor

Shahzad B., Refractory Diffuse Large B-Cell (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Extreme fatigue
Treatment: R&B, R-ICE, R-EPOCH, CAR T-cell therapy (cell-based gene therapy)
FDA approved: October 2017

Erin R., DLBCL & Burkitt Lymphoma, Stage 4



Cancer details: Characteristics of both subtypes
1st Symptoms: Lower abdominal pain, blood in stool, loss of appetite
Treatment: Chemotherapy (Part A: R-CHOP, HCVAD, Part B: Methotrexate, Rituxan, Cytarabine)

Emily G., Diffuse Large B-Cell (DLBCL), Stage 4



1st Symptoms: Pain in left knee
Treatment: R-CHOP chemo (6 cycles), high-dose methotrexate chemo (3 cycles)

Categories
Breast Cancer Cancers Carboplatin Chemotherapy Herceptin (trastuzumab) Invasive Ductal Carcinoma Mastectomy Patient Stories Radiation Therapy Sarcoma Surgery Taxotere (docetaxel) Thyroid Cancer Xeloda (capecitabine)

Lainie’s Multiple Cancer Story

Lainie’s Multiple Cancer Story

Lainie J.

After feeling a lump in her breast, Lainie never thought she would be diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer at 24, especially after beating cancer when she was 18 months old.

By the time Lainie was 26, she had been diagnosed with four cancers and then a fifth one only a few years later.

She shares how she’s been diagnosed with adrenal carcinoma, breast cancer, melanoma, thyroid cancer, and sarcoma. She discusses the different treatments and surgeries she’s undergone and how being an advocate for her health has saved her life.

She opens up about how she lives with Li-Fraumeni syndrome, a rare disorder that makes her more susceptible to growing cancer, her experience of hair loss right before her wedding, and how her support system has been crucial to her cancer journey.

  • Name: Lainie J.
  • Diagnoses:

    • Adrenal carcinoma
    • Breast cancer (Stage 2, HER2+)
    • Melanoma
    • Thyroid cancer
    • Sarcoma

  • Initial Symptom:

    • Lump in breast

  • Treatment:

    • Chemotherapy: for breast cancer (2008 & 2012), for sarcoma (2015)
    • Radioactive iodine: for thyroid cancer (2010)
    • Surgeries: adrenalectomy (1985 & 2021), double mastectomy (2008), thyroidectomy (2010), total hysterotomy (2010), manubriectomy (2013) sarcoma surgery (2015), multiple surgeries for recurrence

  • Maintenance Treatment:

    • Tykerb
    • Herceptin (every 21 days)

  • Follow-up Protocol:

    • Whole body MRI and visits at MD Anderson (every 3 months)
    • Visit doc (every 9 weeks)

That’s something that I live with every day now. I have this gene and my body’s susceptible to developing cancer.

Lainie J. timeline


This interview has been edited for clarity. This is not medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider for treatment decisions.


Introduction

My husband and I live in South Florida [and] moved back from New York. I am 38 years old. We’ll be celebrating our 20th dating anniversary [in 2023]. We’ve been married [for] 10 years so he’s been with me throughout my cancer journey.

We have two wonderful little Boston terriers. I love shopping. I love going to the beach. I love being outdoors, doing fun things, and spending time with family and friends.

Lainie J. with husband

My first cancer diagnosis was when I was 18 months old… I had adrenal carcinoma.

Lainie J. as a baby

Pre-diagnosis

Can you describe some of your first symptoms?

My first cancer diagnosis was when I was 18 months old so obviously, I don’t remember many of those. I had adrenal carcinoma.

Growing up, I knew that I was a cancer survivor and that cancer was a part of my life at some point but was too young to remember. It led me to being a nurse. 

I turned into a hypochondriac [by] becoming a nurse because when you’re in school and you’re learning about all these things, you constantly think something’s wrong with you.

I was late [to] the nursing school game. I switched my career path. I started in fashion and then I’m like, “No, I want to go for what I have always dreamed to be, [which] is a nurse.”

I was doing a self-breast exam [in] July 2008 and I felt the lump. I went to my OB-GYN and he felt a lump, too, and he gave me a prescription for an ultrasound. I neglected to do it because I’m like, “I’m 24. I’ve already had cancer once. There’s no way I can get cancer again, right?” That was just my mentality so I neglected to do it.

Six months went by and it was December. My parents were like, “You need to go get the rest of your scans because you’re turning 25 and you’re going to be off of our health insurance,” so I got all my tests done. I went to my OB-GYN again and I’m like, “You know, I think the lump got bigger.” So he ordered a mammogram. I didn’t have any symptoms. It was mostly just a lump that I had felt for my initial breast cancer diagnosis.

‘I’m 24. I’ve already had cancer once. There’s no way I can get cancer again, right?’

Lainie J. pink ribbon shirt

Lainie. J pink gown

Did you go get the mammogram or the ultrasound?

Yeah. It was the end of the year. I went to go get a mammogram. I went to this guy in South Florida who read mammograms right away. We went there and he read my mammogram.

I’ll never forget him telling my mom and [me]. He read it to us right there. He’s like, “It doesn’t look good.” And we were like, “What do you mean?” Here I am, just about to start nursing school, three and a half [to] four weeks away, and he’s like, “I want to do a biopsy.”

He ended up doing a biopsy and I was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer at 24 years old. It was two weeks before my 25th birthday. It was pretty crazy, pretty shocking. I never thought that I’d become [a] patient, let alone not be a nurse.

I didn’t go to nursing school because I had to have surgery. I did a double mastectomy and then I went through 12 weeks of chemotherapy.

I was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer at 24 years old… two weeks before my 25th birthday.

Were there any other symptoms other than the lump?

No other symptoms. I was perfectly healthy.

I’ve had multiple cancers. I’m very fortunate — fortunate, unfortunate — [that] I don’t have any symptoms. I feel great. I always say that the craziest thing about cancer is sometimes, you don’t have symptoms, but that’s a good thing, right? Because then you catch it early and that’s so important to me. Spreading awareness and creating the importance of early detection because that’s truly what’s saving my life.

Lainie J. in hospital bed

Lainie J. hugging dog

Diagnosis

When you felt that lump, did you ever think this could be cancer? How did you process that diagnosis when you heard those words?

I always felt like my intuition told me that something wasn’t right but then I was also going into nursing school so I’m just like, “Maybe I’m just overthinking these things.”

As a person, I was always extreme. Everything was always just me making things up in my head that it’s worse than it really was. I never thought it was going to be anything. I thought it was just going to be maybe a cyst or something.

When I was diagnosed, I literally was shocked. I couldn’t believe it. When you get a diagnosis, you’re like, “Oh my god, I’m going to die.” Literally, that was the first thing that I said to myself. “I’m too young. I don’t want to die.”

I think the scariest part for me was having to get additional scans after that because you worry. You’re like, “Where is it?” I just always feel like [with] cancer, sometimes you don’t have any symptoms. My bloodwork was never abnormal so I didn’t really have any symptoms.

In that moment, it was a pure state of shock. I processed it. Then I think what really helped me was I spoke to a volunteer through the American Cancer Society Reach To Recovery program. She was like 60 years old, I want to say. I didn’t know her. It was just a phone call and it was about 48 hours after I came home from my double mastectomy. I was like, “Wait. If she’s 60 and I’m 24 and she survived breast cancer, I can do this, right?” That’s why I think it’s so important what you guys are doing because it’s really just giving another lens.

We need to take away that stigma of thinking of cancer as a death sentence and think of it with a positive attitude. That’s so important. I know it’s easier to say than done, but I always tell people I cried for one day and that was it. I said, “You know what? I’m going to do this.”

Unfortunately, there [are] so many younger people being diagnosed, especially with breast cancer. At that time, I was like on a lone island. There [were] not a lot of people who had breast cancer. It was 2008 — not a lot of people my age. I did meet a few young people. I was so grateful that I had an amazing, supportive family and I had an incredible husband who stood by my side the entire time.

Lainie J. holding stuffed dog

Lainie J. holding BRCA sign

Getting tested for Li-Fraumeni syndrome

When I was diagnosed with breast cancer at 24, I was tested for the BRCA gene. I did not have it so in my oncologist’s mind, “You don’t have BRCA. I think it’s just kind of like maybe a hormonal thing that you got breast cancer.”

When I got melanoma, I started to really question. I’m like, “Again, something’s not right. I’m 25 years old. I’ve had three cancers. This is crazy.”

My mom and I were listening to Doctor Radio on SiriusXM and they were talking about adrenal cancer and this genetic predisposition called Li-Fraumeni syndrome. They were basically saying that if you’ve had adrenal cancer, there’s a 90% chance that you could have Li-Fraumeni syndrome. We’re just like, “This is crazy.” At the time, again, genetics were not widely talked about. It was really just BRCA.

I asked my doctor if I can get tested for this gene. He’s like, “Yeah. I doubt you have it.  That’s a textbook thing.” So I was like, “Okay, fine.” He told me I was negative. And you trust your doctors. Again, you have to trust your gut. You always trust your doctors, right? But also make sure you get that physical piece of paper. I didn’t do that.

Age 26 comes along and I get my one-year follow-up for my breast cancer. They did the whole body PET scan. The next day, the doctor calls and he’s like, “There’s a really big mass in your neck and it spread to your chest.” It ended up being thyroid cancer.

I had to go to an endocrinologist and I’m just like, “What? I’m 26 years old and already I’m at four cancers. And I’m told I don’t have Li-Fraumeni syndrome.” That was in the back of my head.

At that time, my endocrinologist, my surgeon they sent me to MD Anderson. That’s when you know you have amazing doctors. They’re like, “We’re not touching you anymore. We’re done touching you here in Florida.  You need to go to a cancer-specialized hospital because something is just not right.”

The first question they asked me when I got there was, “Have you been tested for Li-Fraumeni syndrome?” And I’m just like, “Yeah! I’m negative.” I did end up having it and I was never correctly tested.

I don’t hold grudges. Maybe he didn’t know. He just thought it was textbook. Maybe he did the wrong test. Whatever it was. People are always like, “You should go back to that doctor. That’s terrible.” I’m like, “No. It’s fine.” I’m just moving on and now I know I have this genetic predisposition.

Lainie J. outside MD Anderson Cancer Center

For me, it’s so important because it really changed my protocol in my testing. I was getting PET scans all the time. PET scans and CT scans [are] not good for somebody with Li-Fraumeni syndrome because of the radiation.

My parents, thank God, don’t have it. Neither do my brothers. They don’t have Li-Fraumeni syndrome. Nobody in my family has it. But my parents are both cancer survivors, but they don’t have the gene. We are also Ashkenazi Jewish, so a lot of times, that could be a triggering factor.

Lainie J. MD Anderson poster

Being diagnosed with 5 different cancers

I was getting those tests because that was the standard protocol. When I started getting the PET scans, things changed. I always say it’s just so crazy.

I feel so lucky that we’ve come a very long way [from] when I was diagnosed in 2008 until now. Sometimes it’s very hard for people to see that. But I’ve been living it. I see people, like myself, who were diagnosed in 2008 and things were different. Everything was different.

I always tell people, as weird as it sounds, it’s a good day and age to have cancer. There [are] so many options out there. People are living with this disease and thriving.

I’m on maintenance chemotherapy for the rest of my life and it’s literally keeping me alive. I tell people, “You take blood pressure medicine every day. I take chemotherapy and it’s amazing.”

There was a mole on my back… and it ended up being a melanoma… Here I am. I’m 25, now with three cancers and I’m just like, ‘What is going on?’

Treatment

What was your treatment?

I’ll just backtrack a little bit. When I was diagnosed, I was treated, I like to say, as the typical breast cancer patient. I went in. My doctor knew I had adrenal cancer as a baby. But again, that time, seeing a 24-year-old was kind of rare. I [had] a standard treatment. My breast cancer was HER2-positive so I had the HER2 receptor gene. I think I did TCH. My memory is completely fogged because I’ve done chemo a lot. It was like a TCH combination — Taxotere, Carboplatin, and Herceptin. Then that was it.

I did a double mastectomy initially, then I did expanders, and then I had the expanders transferred out for regular implants. I lost my hair, of course. My treatment stopped in July of 2009.

Then there was a mole on my back and my mom’s friend was like, “Oh no, I know she has a lot going on, but I just want to let you know, she needs to get that mole looked at.” I got it taken off and it ended up being a melanoma, which was crazy. Here I am. I’m 25 now with three cancers and I’m just like, “What is going on?”

Lainie J. in hospital bed

Lainie J. in hospital bed

I think the important thing is, and this is something I really kind of learned along the way, a lot of times people go to a breast oncologist who specializes in breast oncology and that’s amazing, right? If you just have breast cancer. But something I learned is, a lot of times, when you have one cancer, you could get two cancers. It’s something I never knew.

I never look back but something that I would have done a little different is gone to a general oncologist given my history [of] adrenal cancer. Sometimes that’s not spoken about a lot is that if you’ve had multiple cancers, maybe it’s better to be with a general oncologist.

In that moment, my oncologist was like, “Well, I only do breast cancer.” So then I was kind of like, “Oh my god, I’m stuck here.” I don’t know what to do. This is my third cancer. Something’s not right.

Did the treatments overlap?

I have a little bit of breaks in between. I did the chemotherapy first for breast cancer and then I don’t think I was on anything. I was always on Herceptin though till a certain amount of time after my treatment.

Then [for] the thyroid cancer, I had what’s called RAI — radioactive iodine. I was in the hospital for three days. That never overlapped with the breast cancer because I wasn’t on anything.

Then there was a point where I think I was on oral chemo. I did have some intermittent metastatic reoccurrence. Those were treated with oral chemo and then I did radioactive iodine.

I can’t remember if they overlapped but I think if they did, they stopped and then started. 

In 2011, I was re-diagnosed with breast cancer and I think it was one or two lymph nodes. They did stop my Herceptin and the Tykerb that I was on initially and another drug called Xeloda. I was off of it for eight months and this lymph node showed positive. 

I was at MD Anderson at the time so I saw breast oncologist there and they’re like, “We want to take an aggressive approach with these two lymph nodes because it’s concerning that your cancer came back and you were on a chemotherapy and then you stopped it. So something’s not right.”

Lainie J. inside MD Anderson

Lainie J. in MD Anderson robe

I was eight weeks away from getting married. I was so bummed.

We were together seven years before we got engaged. My running joke with my husband was, “You cannot propose to me until my hair is long.” Then it turned out, I had to lose my hair four weeks before my wedding. But it’s okay. Everything happens for a reason.

They did aggressive chemotherapy. In 2012, I had radiation, which was a little risky because of Li-Fraumeni syndrome. But, thank God, I have not had a reoccurrence of breast cancer since 2012. The radiation really helped, but it led to also another cancer. 

It’s crazy but they knew it could cause another cancer so the doctors aggressively watched me. Every three months, I would get whole body MRIs and ultrasounds. In 2015, they caught three tiny spots of sarcoma in my chest wall through an ultrasound. 

Again, back to early detection. I’m on top of my health. They caught it. I ended up having to do a different type [of] chemo again, super aggressive, in 2015. But in between all of those, I’ve always been on Herceptin. That’s a drug I’ve been on and still on it to this day. Since 2012, I’ve been on it consistently, every 21 days. [I’ve also been on] a pill called Tykerb, though I did stop when I had my sarcoma because it contradicted [with] some of the meds. But they always added Herceptin to any type of chemotherapy I was going through.

Learning that your cancer treatment caused another cancer

As crazy as it sounds, I feel like it was like a watch and wait. I think that that’s something that I live with every day now. I have this gene and my body’s susceptible to developing cancer. That’s literally what it is.

I tell people I live my life in three-month increments. I go to Houston every three months, get whole body MRIs and ultrasounds, and see my doctors there. I tell myself if there’s something there, it’s only three months old. It really helps me process everything. I’m very fortunate.

I always put a disclaimer. Everybody is different. Everybody’s cancer journey is different so never compare yourself to someone else. Somebody might be [reading] this and say, “Oh, I have Li-Fraumeni syndrome. That means I need to get my whole body MRIs every three months.”

I think every single person is their own patient. That’s why I love going to MD Anderson because they treat me like I’m not like the patient who was in there before or the patient after.

Lainie J. on couch

Lainie J. in MD Anderson robe

Of course, I get scanxiety. I’m human. I live with that. In the moment, if there is something there, I freak out like any human would. Then I just tell myself, “It’s only three months old.” So that’s really where I’m at with everything.

Did I know that I was going to probably get another cancer from radiation? Yeah. Is there still a chance that I could get another cancer from that radiation? Absolutely. It’s just the life I live. I’ve chosen to just take it and turn it into my purpose and not dwell on it. It’s out of my control.

What were some of the side effects from treatments?

Nausea was the worst. I think that that was terrible. I did a lot of lemon ice cubes. I made my own ice cubes with lemon drops in them.

Every treatment was different. Neulasta was terrible for me. A lot of people don’t have that. 

Dairy was something I loved eating. It was so weird. Each chemotherapy, I had different cravings. I always say it was like being pregnant. I had all these crazy, weird cravings. I was craving feta cheese at one point.

How did you deal with the side effects?

Just exercising, like walking, making sure you’re moving [and] hydrating.

Mind over matter. Staying positive. You can have your days. It’s okay.

And just living in the moment and making the best of a crappy situation. Lemons into lemonade, as cliché as that sounds. Surround yourself with positivity. That’s really what helped me get through everything.

Lainie J. with dog

Lainie J. hair being shaved off

What was going through hair loss like for you?

Losing my hair the first time was the hardest thing for me. I want to say I was vain, but my hair was my favorite part about myself. That was my thing. I had a wig and it grew back.

I told my husband he can’t propose to me until my hair is long and then I had to lose my hair. I actually had my wedding photographer document my head being shaved right before my wedding, which was so amazing. I was known as the Cancer Fighting Bride

Losing my hair was probably the hardest time. It was not the bride I envisioned [myself] to be. I didn’t look like myself. I was on steroids for chemotherapy and I just didn’t feel like myself. 

Lainie J. with husband on wedding day

I look back at the pictures and I’m like, “Oh, God, I didn’t look like who I was.” But my husband’s like, “You’re here. And that’s all that matters.” I think that that’s something to always remember. Never lose sight of what is going on, especially for people who are brides. It shifted life into perspective.

Your wedding isn’t about the flowers, what everybody’s wearing, and all that drama that goes along with it. It’s about the people surrounding you in that room and the person you’re marrying. It’s all about love and family. And that was really captured at our wedding and through our incredible photographer. 

Lainie J. with husband on wedding day

When I had to lose my hair the third time, I’m just like, “Okay, whatever.” At this point, it is what it is. I’m just like, “You know what? This time, I don’t want to shave it. I want to see what it’s like for it to come out. Let’s experiment this.” Then I ended up shaving it. 

Each time was different and it sucks, but your hair grows back. That’s something to always remember. There [are] cold caps nowadays that people do and so many great things now that you don’t have to necessarily lose your hair, but also amazing wigs. 

You’ve got to find the positive in everything. Not having to do your hair every day and just slapping on a wig was the best thing ever. During my wedding, my hairdresser did my hair and it stood on a stand [while] I was able to just roam around and get my makeup done. It was like killing two birds with one stone.

What is your current maintenance treatment?

I take oral chemo every day and then I get Herceptin every 21 days. Thankfully, the only side effect I get is some headaches. But other than that, it’s very easy.

Lainie J. shaved head

Lainie J. hair being shaved off

I have such an amazing support system. It takes a village. I couldn’t do this on my own.

Lainie J. support system

Importance of a great support system

I’m so grateful. I just feel like my whole family, everybody… My husband is a saint. He sometimes has to remind me, “You got to stay on top of your health.” I mean, I’m always on top of my health but he reminds me [about] certain things. He’s so incredible, too, because not everybody is that lucky.

I have such an amazing support system. It takes a village. I couldn’t do this on my own.

Did your parents being cancer survivors impact you in any way?

Totally. All I can say is God bless our caregivers. I’m a hypochondriac and I’m neurotic so I was crazy. It’s funny being on the reverse end because I was never in that seat. 

My parents, thank God, are both doing great. My dad had prostate cancer and thank God my parents are really diligent about their health, too, just given what I’ve gone through, which I’m also so fortunate about.

My mom had a rare blood cancer called myelofibrosis. She ended up having a bone marrow transplant and she, thank God, is doing amazing. She had an anonymous donor who she fortunately got to virtually meet a few years ago. [The] donor was a 12 out of 12 match. That process she went through was eye-opening and scary.

I can see where I get my strength from — my parents. I work at the American Cancer Society. I tell people this is our purpose in life. We are a family who rallies together to really just make a difference. 

I’m so grateful I have my parents as my examples. They would probably say that I’m their example but I think we all feed off of each other’s energy. We’re just very lucky that we’ve had great outcomes. 

I have a lot of cancer in my family, too, so it’s crazy. My mom’s parents, unfortunately, passed away from cancer, but my dad’s parents lived till 94 and 96. It’s a good situation to be in, right? I have cancer and longevity.

Lainie J. with mom

Lainie J. with doctor

Being your own advocate

It’s so important to trust your instincts. Doctors are amazing. It’s okay to have another opinion. I think that’s so important if that’s something that’s very important to you.

You need to feel comfortable with your physician. That’s so important. Making sure if something is not right, you know your body best. You live in the skin you’re in. You know your body the best and if a physician is not willing to act on it, move on.

If somebody calls me and they’re newly diagnosed, don’t get too many opinions. You can drive yourself crazy with opinions. Narrow down to [whom] you feel the most comfortable with. You could get so many opinions then by the time you find somebody that you really like, it’s too late. That’s really what it boils down to. Listen to what your heart is telling you, really.

Importance of documentation

It’s very important to get everything. I always ask for my blood work. We live in a virtual world these days. Have everything in hand, make a file folder, and keep everything, as annoying as it sounds. Or just get the paper, scan it, and throw it away. Visibly see them.

Even if you look at it and it’s in your MyChart, once they give you your results, always take them and look at them so you understand what’s going on and make sure that that’s exactly what you see and what they see. Doctors are very busy people. We’re all humans. We all make mistakes. That’s definitely a lesson I learned. I always get my paperwork.

I’m old school. I take all my paperwork with me. I think really just following through. I always revisit all my tests.

Lainie J. during treatment

Lainie J. in hospital gown

Every time I get a scan, I ask for it and put it in a file folder. Then I really make sure I have everything together. Review it. 

A lot of times, I get rid of them just because everything is in like a MyChart but I like to review everything. It’s just one of those things. I review everything in detail. I have no adrenals and my scans sometimes say that my adrenal is present and I question.

It’s okay to ask questions. It’s so important. Always ask questions. If there’s something you’re a little confused about, ask. The worst thing they’re going to say is, “You’re fine. Don’t worry about it,” or it raises a concern.

I had an incident a few months back when I was in Houston and I had blood work. My BUN was elevated and the doctors weren’t concerned. It was elevated two points, nothing crazy. But I asked. It didn’t look right and it was higher than before. 

Never be afraid to ask a question. Like I said, we’re all human and things can get overlooked. Most of the time they’re nothing but it just shows you’re doing your due diligence.

Words of advice

If you feel something that’s not right or something wasn’t there that you were born with or something looks abnormal, even if you’ve never been diagnosed with cancer, go to your primary care physician or go to your oncologist. If something’s not right, again, you know your body best so you need to speak up and say something. It’s so important.

Having a positive attitude

I think my purpose is to help others and that has really helped me through my journey. When somebody is diagnosed with cancer, I’m always the first person they turn to, which is totally cool with me. I’m there to help people. I’ve turned my diagnosis into my purpose. 

As much as people think it might define who I am, I let it empower who I am. It’s really helped me get through things.

At the end of the day, life could be so much worse, as crazy as it sounds. I’m so grateful that I’ve been able to shift everything and shift my mind.

Lainie J. wearing pink boxing gloves

It’s not always easy. Cancer is not sunshine and rainbows and I know that. But I think, for me, I just really hope that my story helps others and not let people be scared of cancer. Because a lot of times, people delay getting screened or delay getting something because they’re scared they’re going to get cancer.

It’s so important not to delay any of your screenings and stay on top of your routine screenings year after year. Early detection is really a testament to why I’m here today. It saved my life.

How do you deal with scanxiety?

It’s really just the three-month thing. That really just helps me. I just stay positive. It’s that saying, “It is what it is,” and that’s really what it is.

Just knowing that I’m able to have those scans every three months and knowing that if there is something there, it’s not that old. That’s just really kind of what gets me through it.

Lainie J. in hospital bed

How far we’ve come with cancer research and treatments

It’s a good day and age to have cancer. Treatments have come such a long way. From when I was diagnosed in 2008 till now, everything has changed immensely, which is so incredible.

There’s people taking pills right now for cancer, not having to lose their hair, and not having as many side effects. I think that that’s just so incredible.

If that can be any hope and push for those to get screened, I think that that’s so important because there’s so much out there. The most important thing is to catch it early and not ignore any type of symptoms. Even if you don’t have symptoms, if you just feel something, don’t ignore it.

It’s so important not to delay any of your screenings and stay on top of your routine screenings year after year. Early detection is really a testament to why I’m here today. It saved my life.

Lainie J. MD Anderson Cancer logo


Lainie J.
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